New hunters. Cheap vs expensive? What do I actually need and what are realistic expectations?

[Pdzoller]

I was having a conversation with a friend that has just recently started hunting and using firearms. He said he was really discouraged after watching the videos online and said that he just wouldn’t be able to afford to get into the sport.

It makes me wonder how many people find themselves in the same situation.

I gave him some examples and figured I’d share in hopes that others might realize that this doesn’t need to be a rich man’s game.

First example;
Christensen Arms Ranger in .17HMR with Swarovski Z3 $1900 VS Rossi RB17 with Nikon Rimfire scope $339

I own and use bot these rifles regularly. I have found what ammunition works best for each one. The fit, finish and accuracy of the CA is what you should expect having spent that much money. Same with the Swaro sitting on the top of it. Not surprised at all from it.

The Rossi however, this ugly little thing is freaking awesome! It shoots half inch groups right along side the Christensen.
I ring steel at 200 yards with both on a three inch target with nearly every shot.

Second example;
Savage 110 Ultralight in 6.5CM with a Zeiss V4 $2400 VS Savage Axis in .243 with a Vortex DB $349 (bought used).

Same story as above. Both shoot sub moa with factory ammunition.

I can continue making similar comparisons for almost anything in the industry. Moral of the story is USE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD.

Please feel free to list your own comparisons and advice for new hunters that are just starting out.

 

[Gravel Road]

When I first bought a suppressor I wanted a few threaded rifles to play with, so I picked up a Thompson Center Compass. It's a cheap rifle that was on sale and with a rebate and veterans discount it was $179. Added a Nikon 3x9 scope on sale for $99 and some rings and had a threaded barrel rifle for $300. It shoots amazing and I ended up shooting 3 deer with it. There are some way more expensive rifles in the safe, but this one hunted just fine for the price.

I would place the Ruger American in this category too.

There's no need for a an expensive rifle/scope package to start out.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

I hunted with a Bushnell Sport View scope mounted on a Remington Model Seven for 15 years. That scope cost me $49.00 new. I bet I killed 40-50 Whitetails using that scope. I also like the Ruger American as an entry level rifle.

 

[Shortschaf]

$300 monarch 2.5-10 in a $400 rem700 bare muzzle .308

It was great for hunting, just wasn't going to win me any competitions

For hunting, I could pull most any factory rifle off the shelf, and with my choice of $500 scope and good factory ammo be happy to kill stuff out to 500 yards.

 

[z987k]

A savage axis with scope combo is like $450. Pick a caliber that doesn't recoil much and go hunt. Or look for a used cheap gun combo locally.

Is that the best setup ever? Nope. Will he have to work within it's limitations? Yes.
Will any of those limitations keep a new hunter from being successful within their own limits? No.

 

[Macintosh]

Biggest value I see is used guns. As long as you dont get snookered by a pitted bore or something egregious like that, I thinknits easy to stretch limited $ that way, and usually wind up with a gun that in the long term is more likely to be a keeper.

 

[hereinaz]

My first rifle and scope cost $800 total and I shot better than most at a long range class against customs worth 4-10x more.

A new savage and used SWFA can shoot.

If he reads the famous .223 for bear, moose, etc. he can have full confidence in a .223, 6 ARC, or 6 creed and learn quickly.

Have him read that thread and Forms foundations for shooting thread.

If he reads that he can believe if he wants to. That’s the bigger issue— believing and having hope he can do it with what he can afford.

If he doesn’t want to invest that time, then he does not really want to learn and he is giving you excuses. Keep encouraging him, but if he doesn’t want to put in that time, you want it more than him. It will never happen. I got frustrated by lots of people that talked about it but never followed through.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

The only thing I would add is not to go completely Amazon cheap on the optic and rings/bases. I don't want to know how much time, frustration, discouragement, and precious ammo budget I've wasted over the years chasing a zero that wouldn't hold.

Probably worth forking over the $300 for an SWFA right up front.

 

[jimh406]

Many people borrow rifles from friends. If he is your friend, maybe that’s an option.

My first “deer” rifle with scope was less than 50 dollars with scope. Yes, a few decades ago. It was a surplus rifle that the previous owner had drilled and tapped for scope bases. It shot about 5 inch group at 50 yds. Still, I killed my first deer with it.

As others have noted, Ruger and Savage produce very accurate inexpensive guns. They are light years above what I started with. There are a lot of used rifles out there. I’d look into those brands on the used market.

For scopes, Burris, Redfield, and Leupold are all pretty reasonable inexpensive options.

At the end of the day, someone who knows what they are doing can make most guns shoot good enough for hunting. On the other hand, it’s possible to make expensive guns/scopes shoot poorly. All you have to do is mount the optics poorly, have bad technique, and forget to tighten all screws to proper torque.

What you are willing to do is up to you, but most of us have more than one setup.

 

[Weldor]

Buy what you can afford, save the rest for hunting trips. The highest price isn't always the best.

 

[Jimbee]

I think a person is money ahead to figure out what they need before buying stuff. I've bought lots of stuff I thought I needed and never used.

 

[Wapiti1]

It is good that the quality of "cheap" stuff has tended to improve over time. That said, there is a lower limit.

The problem is that everyone gets snookered by youtube, and honestly, sites like this one that there is only one level of gear that is worth owning. Look at all of the comments of buy once cry once. Especially in the optics forum.

Skill trumps gear as long as the gear is reasonably capable.

Scopes: Burris, SWFA, gasp Leupold, Meopta, Sightron. All make lower prices scopes that will do the job. Here, though, understand the limitations. A Leupold Freedom will work as a set it and forget it optic, but dialing it isn't really a path to success. For rings/bases, EGW, Burris, Leupold, Weaver.

Rifles: Ruger American, Mossberg, Savage Axis, Howa, Winchester 783. Used is an option as well, but they need to be a little careful.

Jeremy

 

[Jimbee]

I've hunted in Iowa for as long as I've been old enough and thought going "out west" required fancier or different clothes and gear. Cold is cold, weather is weather, etc.

 

[Ratbeetle]

When I first bought a suppressor I wanted a few threaded rifles to play with, so I picked up a Thompson Center Compass. It's a cheap rifle that was on sale and with a rebate and veterans discount it was $179. Added a Nikon 3x9 scope on sale for $99 and some rings and had a threaded barrel rifle for $300. It shoots amazing and I ended up shooting 3 deer with it. There are some way more expensive rifles in the safe, but this one hunted just fine for the price.

I would place the Ruger American in this category too.

There's no need for a an expensive rifle/scope package to start out.

Hell I'd go a bit further and say there is no need for an expensive combo no matter your experience level. It's simply a want.

I've been hunting for close to 30 years now and could buy any rifle, custom or otherwise, that i wanted. My hunting rifles are ruger americans. They fit me well and just plain shoot. I personally dont need anything more and don't care about the typical rough bolt complaints and finish complaints...doesn't bother me. I do choose to spend a bit more on the optics though, but again, that's a want on my end not necessarily a need.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

First of all, you don't need to spend $5K on a rifle setup to go hunting. You can get something decent for $1K no problem.

Second, your examples are both examples of spending more without getting more. CA is just polished up turds and savages upper tier rifles are just the same.

If I was on a budget I'd go buy one of those new Ruger American gen 2's for around $600 OTD and then spend $500 or so on a decent used optic thats US or Japanese made.

 

[Vern400]

What do you NEED? Got a very proficient friend who prefers to ambush deer in thickets with a 20 gage single shot and a slug. He has killed 5 to 7 per year for the last 30 or so. He has a 30-06 and plenty of stuff. Uses the 20. I got a savage 12FV cheapy that drills a single hole under 400 new and I feel fancy.

 

[TaperPin]

I know of some rifles a new shooter can use for free - the best deal in shooting sports. Free! It’s like penny slots at the casino - cheap entertainment, albeit a little boring.

For four decades the go-to first rifle in our family has been a used 243 or 6mm Remington 700 made in the 60’s or 70’s. If you are a bargain shopper these pop up in odd places with a few scratches and slight bluing loss for under $200. At those prices, shoot it for as many years as you want and you’ll be able to sell it for at least what you bought it for - just like renting it for free. I‘ve had a few - when money was tight I’d shoot one a few thousand rounds, sell it and buy another.

The Remington 700 parts you add on this rifle can always be used on a different gun when you upgrade. I would buy a gun, swap out the stock and trigger, keeping the old wood stock and factory trigger for the time when it was put up for sale.

I always have one of these free rifles and they naturally become loaners.

 

[bigsky2]

It seems like new hunters watch the Youtube videos and think they need to be decked out in the most expensive camo and have all the fancy gear that they see being used in the videos.

 

[roosiebull]

I was having a conversation with a friend that has just recently started hunting and using firearms. He said he was really discouraged after watching the videos online and said that he just wouldn’t be able to afford to get into the sport.

It makes me wonder how many people find themselves in the same situation.

I gave him some examples and figured I’d share in hopes that others might realize that this doesn’t need to be a rich man’s game.

First example;
Christensen Arms Ranger in .17HMR with Swarovski Z3 $1900 VS Rossi RB17 with Nikon Rimfire scope $339

I own and use bot these rifles regularly. I have found what ammunition works best for each one. The fit, finish and accuracy of the CA is what you should expect having spent that much money. Same with the Swaro sitting on the top of it. Not surprised at all from it.

The Rossi however, this ugly little thing is freaking awesome! It shoots half inch groups right along side the Christensen.
I ring steel at 200 yards with both on a three inch target with nearly every shot.

Second example;
Savage 110 Ultralight in 6.5CM with a Zeiss V4 $2400 VS Savage Axis in .243 with a Vortex DB $349 (bought used).

Same story as above. Both shoot sub moa with factory ammunition.

I can continue making similar comparisons for almost anything in the industry. Moral of the story is USE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD.

Please feel free to list your own comparisons and advice for new hunters that are just starting out.

For sure, when I was younger, I couldn’t afford any expensive hunting gear and didn’t really see the value of it, but I was hell on critters… looking back on older pictures is pretty funny, I literally needed nothing but a tag and a weapon and I couldn’t be happier… packed out a lot of elk with quarters over my shoulder, cheap game bags over my shoulder tearing them in the brush… there was one elk that finally changed that one year and the afternoon I got it done I went and bought 2 hide away frames (which either sucked, I had no concept of how they were supposed to fit, or both)

Now I do enjoy nicer stuff as I can afford it, but fully understand that it’s all luxury rather than necessity… I killed a bunch of stuff in Walmart camo with muzzys and cheap old clunky bows… hunted for probably 15 years before buying any binos, then did the slow upgrade process from very cheap… none of that mattered, I was filling every tag, and didn’t feel under gunned in any way… it’s all relative

I was recently sick for a couple weeks, nasty bug, and wasn’t doing much for a few days, so was watching some YouTube videos, I am not very interested in whitetail stuff, but a video from the hunting public came on and I watched it, then started watching a few of their episodes… I knew of them, but have never watched them, and I thought it was really cool how they go out of their way to not use the nicest gear they can (you know with their popularity they could all be decked out with top shelf gear for free and get paid wearing/using it)

They prove (on purpose) that the gear doesn’t make the hunter, I didn’t know that about them, but that impressed me, refreshing seeing such a popular crew staying grounded and relatable to the audience that they are trying to reach…. So simple but over looked in hunting media. I can’t stand most hunting films, and whitetail is boring to me (can’t relate to it) but those guys are pretty entertaining, and make whitetail hunting look fun, and do it on the cheap… hard to not respect that in today’s world

 

[TaperPin]

I was just thinking about the absolute cheapest scope someone on a budget could get by with for moa shooting. Cheap variable scopes are junk. For $50 I’ve seen used 4x 1970’s and 1980’s Weaver, Burris, Redfield, Nikon Monarch, and Bushnell Banner scopes that hold up ok. The Weaver steel scopes are probably the most durable, but heavy and have the worst optics. The Banner is the cheapest and probably the most fragile of the group, but they are ok‘ish if you don’t drop them.

Sorry, but if a rifle won’t shoot moa with a 4x at the range, more scope won’t help much.