My home town is gone!

[sneaky]

I relocate nationwide for 3-12 month long construction projects. I've spent roughly 5 of the past 9 years in various parts of CA. One thing that this lifestyle has taught me is that you can't assume what type of person you'll run into based on the state you are in. CA is just like almost every other state, the big cities vote blue and more rural areas vote red. It's surprising how often people have made comments like "I don't know how you can live there, I could never, crazy commies".. Uh, I live in a little mountain town full of rednecks, ranchers, and construction workers. Yeah, it sucks I can't bring some of my AR's and pistols but there are much better public land shooting opportunities where I can ring steel from a long ways than there are in my home state of MN. There were 4.4 million people that voted for Trump in CA, 400k in Idaho, 280k in MT, yet people will have dumb ass thoughts about CA "deserving it" for their politics.

Most frustrating is how hungry certain people are to feed their hate and seemingly focus directly on finding a way to use this mess as a way to try to validate their political identity. Left wants to crucify the right for their eagerness to ignore climate change, right wants to crucify left for their overboard natural resource management. Maybe if people would think for themselves they could see that both sides have a point and there were other non-political factors at play as well.

One thing you didn't mention is that 4.4 million people is only a little over 10% of Cali population. 400k in Idaho is about 40%. Yes, a lot of people voted for Trump, and I talk to a lot of them when I'm out there for work. But, by and large they are outnumbered by the Trump haters I encounter.

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[sneaky]

A lot of the older customers I talk to want out because of how the state has gone. The young people think it's the greatest place on earth. I tell them they need to travel more lol.

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[ams]

I’ve been up here working a lot these past two weeks. I feel for everyone who has been impacted by these fires. It happened so fast that the main road through Paradise looks like something from a movie. Cars crashed into each other, back ends hanging out of ditches, lines of burned vehicles. On a good note we were able to get a lot of people out, mostly elderly who had holed up in the Right Aid. There are a lot of looters who are trying to take advantage of the situation but there are more good people who are lending a helping hand.

 

[wind gypsy]

There are a lot of looters who are trying to take advantage of the situation

Talk about scum of earth..

 

[sneaky]

Talk about scum of earth..

Exactly. If they somehow figured into the death toll I wouldn't mind...SSS

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[Takem]

What a tragedy. I'm sorry for those that lost family members and homes. It's scary to think this fire really got going in a well managed section of private forest. For those that think there is one thing to blame for this whether it's PGE or our liberal government policies you're not paying attention.

 

[nrh6.7]

Very sorry for all involved and hope life somehow straightens out soon.

 

[Bigfootcali]

If the people of CA would vote for more common sense and not the sky is falling politicians then this entire fire situation could have been mitigated.

Politics would have not mitigated the situation at all,you have a state with extreme drought conditions topped with the fact that the bark beetle has killed millions of trees. Think about this with the amount of dead trees there is and even if you had the funding,you would still not make a dent on the issue. There is more to these fires than politics,you need to take a look at fire behavior and how the winds and humidity affect it and with 40mph winds and low relative humidity no amount politicing would have stopped that thing. Take a look at the time lapse photo from the intial start of the fire,in 35 min that thing made run,that for that time of day was just incredible and by no means was stopable. To prevent these types of things to happen again there would need to be alot of thining of fuels and alot of logging and then things might look a little better but without a very wet winter with alot of snow pack the moister in those types of vegitation would still be low and receptive to fire.

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[excaliber]

So you want to do nothing about it then? This is the kind of thinking that has burned up the whole state. Too many years of neglecting proper forest management by refusing to cut down dead trees and burn underbrush on a yearly basis has provided so much fuel these kind of fires are all too common there. Sit on your hands and do nothing and see how that works.

I grew up in So. Ca. and spent most of my life there. I practically lived in NE Ca. and the eastern Sierras. I know what goes on in that state. Drought conditions and thick overgrown forests are a recipe for disaster. There's only one of those two things you can alter. California has decided to do nothing and it's been like that since I can remember.

I feel sorry for those who lost their lives. It's really sad.

 

[Bigfootcali]

So you want to do nothing about it then? This is the kind of thinking that has burned up the whole state. Too many years of neglecting proper forest management by refusing to cut down dead trees and burn underbrush on a yearly basis has provided so much fuel these kind of fires are all too common there. Sit on your hands and do nothing and see how that works.

I grew up in So. Ca. and spent most of my life there. I practically lived in NE Ca. and the eastern Sierras. I know what goes on in that state. Drought conditions and thick overgrown forests are a recipe for disaster. There's only one of those two things you can alter. California has decided to do nothing and it's been like that since I can remember.

I feel sorry for those who lost their lives. It's really sad.

I'm not saying that,you are taking what i said out of contexed what I'm saying is that California has a serious problem,the severe drought and bug kill has contributed to these fire being so destructive but also remember that area was under a redflag warning that day,also the humidity was low which is major factor in fire behavior and spread and top that off with 40mph winds and i would say that the fuel moisters were in low critical area. There would of been no amount of prep that would of stopped it,that far was spotting so far ahead of it's self and spotting in places that were next to structures and there is more tonit than forest management. Think about this and do some research on things especially fire behavior and weather but most importantly look at the history of how we have managed the land,the build up of fuels is 100 years in the making and has come to a critical point that it would take another hundred years to mitigate that and bring the forest to a manageable state. The understory for one is thinck with brush and down fall and years of duff,then you have the bug kill which is out of control and to mitigate that you would have a army of fallers and logging companies to even make a dent in it. Today everyone ia so quick to blame politics for these type of disasters whitout looking at the whole pitcure and that goes beyond politics. I'm sure in your time living in socal and etc you have seen plenty of fire but unless you understand fire and fire behavior and how weather and winds and fuel moister contribute to that than you cannot make no assumptions on what you think is the problem. Forest are managed to best of the ability of forest manager's who also have a budget they have to go by and they will to what is needed to protect the public in those areas that the public access and use and also due what they can to protect the natural resources.

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[Bigfootcali]

So you want to do nothing about it then? This is the kind of thinking that has burned up the whole state. Too many years of neglecting proper forest management by refusing to cut down dead trees and burn underbrush on a yearly basis has provided so much fuel these kind of fires are all too common there. Sit on your hands and do nothing and see how that works.

I grew up in So. Ca. and spent most of my life there. I practically lived in NE Ca. and the eastern Sierras. I know what goes on in that state. Drought conditions and thick overgrown forests are a recipe for disaster. There's only one of those two things you can alter. California has decided to do nothing and it's been like that since I can remember.

I feel sorry for those who lost their lives. It's really sad.

Also to tag on to the conversation California lands are not all managed by California,you have state and federal lands and thise are 2 different agency with 2 different directions and budgets.

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[Beendare]

The comment that "Politics has nothing to do with this" is a huge load of horse puckey.

A buddy was shown a room full of paperwork at the Forest service office. Its all lawsuits filed against the FS by the different liberal "Green" organizations putting a halt to logging/ cutting of just about any kind. The Forest service doesn't have a budget to fight the tree huggers...so they sit on their hands.

If politics didn't factor in...then why don't we see those horrible fires in other states?

Just look at the article I posted from the local paper where the local resident tree huggers told PGE NOT to clear trees.....

It absolutely is politics....

 

[TexasCub]

Is politics a part of the problem in California regading wildland fires...absolutely.

But the real issue is California is a man made disaster as a whole. Too many people in places that were never intended to have people is the bigger problem. People building multi million dollar homes in the most vulnerable topographic location, surrounded by fuel that is drier than a popcorn fart with zero defensive space around it. Same goes for building subdivisions in dense landscape that are also drier than a popcorn fart. Power lines spanning for thousands of miles in dense timber that once again is drier than a popcorn fart. 90 + % of these tires are started by humans and then people wonder why the end result is soo bad? Seriously? God help Californians when something really bad happens like a major earthquake and millions instead of thousands are caught in grid lock trying to flee to safety. That place is a ticking time bomb! California has suffered from wild fires forever but the loss of life is the biggest difference now due to human congestion, it’s only going to get worse.

 

[kicker338]

The comment that "Politics has nothing to do with this" is a huge load of horse puckey.

A buddy was shown a room full of paperwork at the Forest service office. Its all lawsuits filed against the FS by the different liberal "Green" organizations putting a halt to logging/ cutting of just about any kind. The Forest service doesn't have a budget to fight the tree huggers...so they sit on their hands.

If politics didn't factor in...then why don't we see those horrible fires in other states?

Just look at the article I posted from the local paper where the local resident tree huggers told PGE NOT to clear trees.....

It absolutely is politics....

XX there Beendare. Case in point back more yrs. than I can remember we had a big wind storm blow threw where I lived in Nth. Ca. having a wood stove I was thinking about all the fire wood I could get in the six rivers national forest. About a mth. later I get a letter from the forest service saying that because of the storm I couldn't cut any downed timber over 12in. in dia. they even marked downed trees that fire wood cutters were not to cut. I was fine with that timber is valuable so I avoided all those marked trees. Fast forward about 6yrs. guess what was still laying on the ground, same marked trees only by that time the were too rotten for fire wood.

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, it's unfortunate....the Dems have been calling the shots in Ca for decades.

The dems are beholden to the "Environmentalists" ....the same folks strapping themselves to trees. Environmentalists held up building of a new stadium at UC Berkeley for many years by living in a tree on the site. Seems like politics to me.

The same Liberal Dems have appointed Judges such as the one that recently ruled the migrants marching towards the US can enter illegally. Politics again.

I wish I could just ignore politics.....but its relevant to just about everything.

 

[Broomd]

XX there Beendare. Case in point back more yrs. than I can remember we had a big wind storm blow threw where I lived in Nth. Ca. having a wood stove I was thinking about all the fire wood I could get in the six rivers national forest. About a mth. later I get a letter from the forest service saying that because of the storm I couldn't cut any downed timber over 12in. in dia. they even marked downed trees that fire wood cutters were not to cut. I was fine with that timber is valuable so I avoided all those marked trees. Fast forward about 6yrs. guess what was still laying on the ground, same marked trees only by that time the were too rotten for fire wood.

Disgusting, and what happens when lunatics run the asylum. Consider yourself lucky to even be able to burn wood for heat in that joke of a state!

 

[Bigfootcali]

I never said politics was not to blame, what inwas referring to is how the fire behavior on this fire was extreme and there was no way to slow it down. If you want to get into politics and lawsuits then so be it. I was merely stating some real world facts and observations on the matter, we all know environmentalist,politicians all play a hand in this situation. The thing is mother nature is going to do what she wants when she wants and there is no stopping that. I'm not here to get into a political battle of land management and how thing's are done but like I've stated this problem is a hundred years in the making.

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[Beendare]

Gotcha^

Its a terrible tragedy....that needs common sense and preventative measures applied....against the objections from the so called Environmental groups.

I don't see our new GovernorGavin Newsome elected by the Dems making any kind of common sense change...he is a political climber beholden to the environmental groups. No where does common sense factor into his decisions....we saw that when he was mayor of San Francisco- Rant over...sorry for the political diatribe.

 

[Bigfootcali]

Gotcha^

Its a terrible tragedy....that needs common sense and preventative measures applied....against the objections from the so called Environmental groups.

I don't see our new GovernorGavin Newsome elected by the Dems making any kind of common sense change...he is a political climber beholden to the environmental groups. No where does common sense factor into his decisions....we saw that when he was mayor of San Francisco- Rant over...sorry for the political diatribe.

Yes it is a very terrible tragedy that could have beem prevented if PG&E would have shut down the lines like they had prior during simular red flag conditions,there faulty equipment was already to blame for another devastating fire. There needs to be more regulation when it comes to power companies and they do things during these types of conditions. California has a history of devastating fires but nothing of this magnitude and the type of fire behavior we are seeing today. I agree with you that the new governor will do nothing to mitigate this problem,i see him contributing to the problem but that is on the state level,on the fed side thats a whole different beast that i do not see getting any better. We live in a state were quite a bit of the population lives in these areas that are very susceptible to wildfires and pose a very big challenge for firefighters when it comes to supression and keeping the population safe.

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[Beendare]

Yes it is a very terrible tragedy that could have beem prevented if PG&E would have shut down the lines like they had prior during simular red flag conditions,there faulty equipment was already to blame for another devastating fire.

We sure see things differently...thats for sure.

PGE is in a no win situation here in CA.

Just turn off the power you say? Oh man, the tantrums created by doing that would be huge. [another political conundrum]

Everyone here is pointing the finger at PGE the public electricity provider. They can't enforce clearing and trimming trees as they would like- then they get sued. We have already established documented cases of residents and Environmentalists chastising PGE for clearing trees by the local paper.

The PUC in their grasping at straws to end around the environmentalists asked PGE to bury all of the utility lines. [Yeah right, hundreds of thousands of miles?!] The costs came back at $1,000,000 per mile... Ridiculous idea....

This is the environment here in CA....no common sense...and then when catastrophe strikes, lets blame someone else for our problems.

We need leadership here...and we get Crickets. Then everyone lambasts Trump for telling it like it is......a bit insensitively for sure...but its the truth.