Muzzleloader questions for Idaho

[tito_zako]

Hi all,
I have never had or shot a muzzle loader, but I'd like to get into it.
I've been doing some reading on here and I narrowed down my selection of a ML for Idaho: I'll go with a knights ultra-light in 0.50 so I can do both elk and deer.
if possible, I'd like to have the ML to be able to, with some modifications, hunt the ML legal hunts, and then use it during the any weapons as well. Granted, during the any weapon I could use the same set up as ML, but I wanted to take advantage of the some of the potential improvements such as scopes, pelletized powder, primers, etc during the any weapon part of the season.
with that in mind, which type of ignition system should I go with?
and what accessories would I need in order to out fit it to work better for longer range or muzzle loader only hunts?
Just wondering about accessories related to ignition system only. as far as optics/peep sights, I can figure that out on my own.

 

[sabotloader]

Hi all,
I have never had or shot a muzzle loader, but I'd like to get into it.
I've been doing some reading on here and I narrowed down my selection of a ML for Idaho: I'll go with a knights ultra-light in 0.50 so I can do both elk and deer.

I am totally biased - but I believe that is really really a good choice!

if possible, I'd like to have the ML to be able to, with some modifications, hunt the ML legal hunts, and then use it during the any weapons as well. Granted, during the any weapon I could use the same set up as ML, but I wanted to take advantage of the some of the potential improvements such as scopes, pelletized powder, primers, etc during the any weapon part of the season.

Consider this....

I used a NECG-Weaver type peep sight for Western hunting. It is not the mot easily adjusted sight but it works and hold true. It is mounted on Maixmus scope bases - so during the regular season I can easily remove the peep and install a scope.

I also change the front sight out to use a Williams combination for Western hunting

with that in mind, which type of ignition system should I go with?

Were I use you... I would order a Colorado/Washington legal ULite. It will come with a FPJ breech plug and will be 209 ignition. Then that can easily be converted to the 209 Bare Primer ignition using the The Lehigh Defense ignition parts. To convert to cap ignition you will then need to order a Western BP and nipple using a #11 caps.

and what accessories would I need in order to out fit it to work better for longer range or muzzle loader only hunts?

The peep sight will allow fairly easy shooting to 150-75 yards and I would stretch that to 200 with an elk and all shooting conditions being on the good side.

Just wondering about accessories related to ignition system only. as far as optics/peep sights, I can figure that out on my own.

 

[tito_zako]

thanks a bunch, Sabotloader, this is very helpful!
So if I get the Colorado variant, I will need BOTH The Lehigh Defense ignition parts AND Western BP and nipple to shoot with CAPS, as required in Idaho?
and as far as this ignition components go, would you happen to have a part number or something more specific? I know nothing about muzzleloaders, and I want to make sure I'm getting the right components.
when I looked for the western bp i got some hose fitting type of results showing up. and when I landed on Lehigh defense, there was a bunch of ammo stuff...
thanks again!

 

[sabotloader]

thanks a bunch, Sabotloader, this is very helpful!
So if I get the Colorado variant, I will need BOTH The Lehigh Defense ignition parts AND Western BP and nipple to shoot with CAPS, as required in Idaho?

You would need a Lehigh Breech Plug for a ULite with a Vent Liner, a Primer Adapter,

SSK Firearms - Barrels | Firearm Components | Ammo | Bullets

sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com

SSK Firearms - Barrels | Firearm Components | Ammo | Bullets

sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com

SSK Firearms - Barrels | Firearm Components | Ammo | Bullets

sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com

The Western Breech Plug and Nipple set would need to come from Knight

Mountaineer And Ultra-Lite Western Legal Breech Plug

Mountaineer And Ultra-Lite Western Breech Plug fits all Knight Mountaineer and Ultra-Lite models, regardless of caliber (.45, .50, .52).

www.muzzleloaders.com

It will come with one #11 nipple and one Musket Cap nipple

Where we are cheating the system a little bit is if you get the FPJ ignition system when you order the rifle - there is a very good chance that your FPJ bolt will also work with the Western BP. There is a chance... that it might not. You will not really know until you install the Western BP.

and as far as this ignition components go, would you happen to have a part number or something more specific? I know nothing about muzzleloaders, and I want to make sure I'm getting the right components.
when I looked for the western BP I got some hose fitting type of results showing up. and when I landed on Lehigh defense, there was a bunch of ammo stuff...
thanks again!

Yes the Lehigh site is somewhat more difficult to navigate...

Follow this link - then click on Firearm Components - then a drop down menu should appear. It will get you to a lot of places...

mike
208 882-4015 Land Line

 

[tito_zako]

perfect!
so, if the PFJ bolt does not work with the western breech plug, I'll need a different bolt also to make the system work with caps?

 

[sabotloader]

perfect!
so, if the PFJ bolt does not work with the western breech plug, I'll need a different bolt also to make the system work with caps?

Yes, you might different bolt housing... your current hammer assembly will work in either bolt but.... I am not sure that Knight will sell it that way... They do sell the whole kit but I would still get the FPJ and order just the Western BP and check it for fit with the FPJ bolt/

Premier Western Muzzleloader Conversion Kit

This Knight Premier Western Muzzleloader Conversion Kit converts black powder Mountaineers and Ultra-lites to shoot No. 11 or musket caps

www.muzzleloaders.com

Mountaineer And Ultra-Lite Western Legal Breech Plug

Mountaineer And Ultra-Lite Western Breech Plug fits all Knight Mountaineer and Ultra-Lite models, regardless of caliber (.45, .50, .52).

www.muzzleloaders.com

 

[Sacrvrrat72]

Sabotloader pretty much has you dialed. The only thing I would add is my Colorado version came with a bare primer bolt. This is after Knight told me to order the Colorado version if I wanted the FPJ bolt. They are going to make it right but the Colorado version comes with the bare primer bolt per Justin at Knight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tito_zako]

perfect!! I think the colorado would do then. one more thing I'm trying to figure out... is there a way to mount the williams western precision set on the ultralite?

Ecommerce

shop.williamsgunsight.com

they do say it's not compatible with ultralite, i'm curious if the stock needs to be modified?

 

[sabotloader]

perfect!! I think the colorado would do then. one more thing I'm trying to figure out... is there a way to mount the williams western precision set on the ultralite?

Ecommerce

shop.williamsgunsight.com

they do say it's not compatible with ultralite, i'm curious if the stock needs to be modified?

I do not think it is possible because Williams says in their literature it will not work on a Knight DISC or Mountaineer series rifle. I really think in the long run you would like the William's ramp, fiber optic sight, and fire sight hood better. I do change the red optic rod out for a green rod - way more contrast to the object you are shooting at.

Even looking out into this partially green field the front sight shows up - brighter.

Were I target shooting the front Globe would certainly be helpful. The other thing I have read the Globe front sight can be a problem in low light.

 

[tito_zako]

what diameter is that green dot? I'm guessing at 100 yards it would cover the equivalent to a 10 in circle?
and is the williams ramp compatible with weaver bases so that I could change from the sight to a scope?

 

[Sacrvrrat72]

what diameter is that green dot? I'm guessing at 100 yards it would cover the equivalent to a 10 in circle?
and is the williams ramp compatible with weaver bases so that I could change from the sight to a scope?

It is a .060 fiber. I am running the same front sight after basically buying and trying them all.

It does cover quite a bit of the target but it is manageable and I have found nothing better for low light.

It should be fine with the weaver bases. I had some issues with a taller base, but those are lower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tito_zako]

something like this would be overkill for a muzzie?

Champion's Choice

 

[tito_zako]

and for the NECG-Weaver type peep sight you guys are running... I can't find info how to adjust for elevation. do you slide it up and down? doesn't seem to have target knobs like the williams

 

[tito_zako]

ok, I think i found a solution:

https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/fpairgun-ag-014168

mounted onto this:

Buy .22 Tip-Off Adapter Bases and More | Weaver Optics

Shopping for the .22 Tip-Off Adapter Bases - Learn more about the latest .22 Tip-Off Adapter Bases and other hunting or shooting gear at Weaver Optics.

www.weaveroptics.com

Not sure if the holes will align, but that is an easy fix to add an extra hole.
there might be some of the stock to be ground out to allow for the elevation adjustment mechanism also, but this why you get a williams with target knobs on a ultralight, and can be removed to mount a scope using the weaver part of the base.

 

[sabotloader]

Skeptical - but I really do not know.... So I really hope it will work for you.

 

[sabotloader]

what diameter is that green dot? I'm guessing at 100 yards it would cover the equivalent to a 10 in circle?
and is the williams ramp compatible with weaver bases so that I could change from the sight to a scope?

It is a 0.060 fiber rod. At 100 yards it does cover the whole 2 3/4 circle of a clay pigeon. So I think think it covers about 4". But it really doesn't matter, because shooting open sights you do not cover the target with the bead. The point you want to hit is sitting on the top of the bead. So your sight spot is never covered. This is called a 6 O'clock hold. Where you want the bullet to go is set right on top of the front sight.

This pic shows my front sight setup. I do change the red fiber optic out for a green one it provides a much better contrast for me.

I use a peep sight and Williams front sight combination with a Fire Sight Hood installed on the the ramp. So when you look through and at the front sight it gives you the illusion that you are looking through a 1x scope. Diagram 'H' shows the best image of what I am talking about.

 

[timcorcoran]

Hey there, I am in the same position the original poster was. I am looking to purchase a Knight Ultra-lite. 50 cal for muzzleloader season elk hunting in Idaho, and also want to also get it set up for general weapon season with improvements like a scope, pelletized powder, primers, etc.

I have read everything above in detail and plan on following all recommendations above from @sabotloader to a T.

I am currently planning on purchasing the Ultra-lite olive green stock with nitride finish.

Questions for sabotloader - have any of your recommendations changed since your replies above?

Is the nitride finish still the best?

When I order the muzzloader from Knight, am I correct in understanding that I will need the Full Plastic Jacket option without sights, drilled and tapped for a scope?

In your setup above, are all open sights purchased from other businesses aside from Knight?

Thanks!

Tim

PS - @tito_zako how did your muzzleloader turn out?

 

[sabotloader]

Hey there, I am in the same position the original poster was. I am looking to purchase a Knight Ultra-lite. 50 cal for muzzleloader season elk hunting in Idaho, and also want to also get it set up for general weapon season with improvements like a scope, pelletized powder, primers, etc.

[/QUOTE]
Making the ML a multiple use rifle can be done fairly easily. The front sight setup will remain the same but the rear sight combination will/would need to be adjusted.

I have read everything above in detail and plan on following all recommendations above from @sabotloader to a T.

I am currently planning on purchasing the Ultra-lite olive green stock with nitride finish.

Questions for sabotloader - have any of your recommendations changed since your replies above?

I personally started out using a NECG-weaver rear peep sight mounted on a Warne - Weaver style scope base. The NECG can easily be removed and a scope with Weaver style rings installed on the bases.

This sight setup works, but it is not as easily sighted in as a Weaver FP peep.

Is the nitride finish still the best?

[/QUOTE]
I really do believe the Nitride option is the better-best option - but the Stainless option is not bad at all, just requires slightly more maintenance,

When I order the muzzleloader from Knight, am I correct in understanding that I will need the Full Plastic Jacket option without sights, drilled and tapped for a scope?

[/QUOTE]
Yes, I would suggest ordering a Western Style ML with FPJ bolt and ignition. With that bolt you can install a Western BP and a #11 percussion cap nipple for ignition.

Now a possible problem can develop in making the rifle able to shoot bare 209 primers. Lately a few people are having problems with getting the Lehigh Bare Primer breech plug - Primer Adapter installed and the bolt closing properly. Not always is this happening but it can be a tripping point. There are work arounds to alleviate the problem if it were to exist.

In your setup above, are all open sights purchased from other businesses aside from Knight?

Thanks!

Tim

PS - @tito_zako how did your muzzleloader turn out?

Yes, I puchased my parts from separate vendors.

Tim check your PM's I am going to send you a message.

mike

 

[timcorcoran]

Thanks so much Mike, I appreciate your help!

-Tim

 

[bitterroot_reaper]

I am totally biased - but I believe that is really really a good choice!



Consider this....

I used a NECG-Weaver type peep sight for Western hunting. It is not the mot easily adjusted sight but it works and hold true. It is mounted on Maixmus scope bases - so during the regular season I can easily remove the peep and install a scope.

I also change the front sight out to use a Williams combination for Western hunting

Were I use you... I would order a Colorado/Washington legal ULite. It will come with a FPJ breech plug and will be 209 ignition. Then that can easily be converted to the 209 Bare Primer ignition using the The Lehigh Defense ignition parts. To convert to cap ignition you will then need to order a Western BP and nipple using a #11 caps.




The peep sight will allow fairly easy shooting to 150-75 yards and I would stretch that to 200 with an elk and all shooting conditions being on the good side.

I know this is an older post, but I super appreciate the info. I'm revitalizing a TC Thunderhawk in .54, adding a brake and pic rail for general hunts in Idaho, as well as, I found a factory new 209 nipple and striker kit which is being redesigned to accept a Variflame adapter. This rear peep sight set up (and the NECG ramp front) will work perfect if I draw NM or CO.