Muscular Endurance for Mountain Athletes

[Josh Gray]

Agree - and I've found it to be the case. In my experience, I can get a very good, very localized ME workout through the gym-based workout and still have the energy to go on an hourish run in the afternoon. You can also control all the variables to dial in the workout really well. (Variables being the number of reps, number of sets, rest between sets, etc.) If I do a pack workout, it tends to be overall longer and the general fatigue is much higher. Don't want to do a run in the evening.

For what it's worth, I think the pack workouts (and associated fatigue) are critical to do before a hunt. (Or uphill intervals when training for races rather than hunts.) But for a limited period of time, like 8 or 10 weeks, rather than year-round. The gym-based workouts allow you to do regulated ME workouts during a base phase (12-16 weeks like 6 months out from the event) while maintaining a pretty high volume of aerobic training. When the time comes to jump into the event-specific ME workouts (pack carries for hunt or uphill intervals for races), you do so with a good base level of ME so you can really crank those workouts. Training to train, so to speak.

For what it's worth - not that anyone cares - I did find that the gym-based ME workouts neglected my calves, so when I jumped into the pack or intervals my calves ended up fatiguing much more quickly than quads/hamstrings/hips. So I started jump-roping as a warmup, which really helped. It's also supposed to help strengthen the achilles tendon, so I see it as part of my newly-old-man routine to keep my achilles firmly attached to my heel - way too many people pop their achilles and that gives me the shivers...

I “popped” my achilles about 14 years ago and was a terrible experience. I too added calves at the end of my gym ME sessions earlier this year using MTI’s Tabata calve raises.

20” rapid calve raises, 10” hold at the top x2
Rest 30-45” and repeat.

 

[mtwarden]

The two hills I'm using has me on my toes (calves fully engaged) probably 25-35% of the route; thankfully not 25-35% straight—nicely sprinkled out instead.

I was purposely trying to avoid something so steep that you're on your toes the entire way—you'd have calves like Conan , but a lot less work on the quads/hamstrings.

 

[P Carter]

The two hills I'm using has me on my toes (calves fully engaged) probably 25-35% of the route; thankfully not 25-35% straight—nicely sprinkled out instead.

I was purposely trying to avoid something so steep that you're on your toes the entire way—you'd have calves like Conan , but a lot less work on the quads/hamstrings.

Truth!

I have one route that is up a steep-but-not-ridiculous trail, down the other side and back up. That side is ridiculous - ~2,000 feet in a mile. The second pull engages the calves the entire way up; my eyes are watering by the time I get back up to the top.

Coincidentally, last year I got a "modern" suit and had to get it tailored because my calves were larger in circumference than my knees; the lower legs wouldn't fit over my calves. Apparently that isn't all that common. Conan probably has that problem all the time.

 

[brolo]

I’ve read through this thread a few times and breezed through the links, but don’t know that I’m hitting the ME focus. Im at sea level with zero hills, so I have been using weighted lunges, step ups, and sled push. Im stringy with a good aerobic base, but my HR is jumping right to Z3-4 at 25-50% BW. I’ve generally been deliberate about keeping a slow grinding pace, but still end up out of Z2. For you guys, does the weight feel heavy with an immediate low burn when you start? Or does the heavy/burn feeling gradually kick in towards the end of the workout?

 

[mtwarden]

Not so much that the weight feels heavy, but that you slowly start to get a burn in the legs; for me that progresses and definitely burns more as I get closer to the top.

Not sure how you determined your zones, but it's possible your zones may be off? I've simply gone by the "can you carry on a conversation" for mine. There are some tests that are done in a laboratory setting that are probably the most accurate. I've thought about doing that at some point just to see how close I am.

Also from what I read w/ ME is that ~25% of BW is probably the highest you should need and to build slowly to that. 50% is quite a bit of weight.

The bottom line is it's probably all good as long as you can adequately recover and keep up the Zone 2 training

 

[Josh Gray]

I’ve read through this thread a few times and breezed through the links, but don’t know that I’m hitting the ME focus. Im at sea level with zero hills, so I have been using weighted lunges, step ups, and sled push. Im stringy with a good aerobic base, but my HR is jumping right to Z3-4 at 25-50% BW. I’ve generally been deliberate about keeping a slow grinding pace, but still end up out of Z2. For you guys, does the weight feel heavy with an immediate low burn when you start? Or does the heavy/burn feeling gradually kick in towards the end of the workout?

Don’t know how your breaking up your circuit but I would say that using more than 25% body weight for lunges is def gonna move away from ME and more towards anaerobic strength mostly due to the longer range of motion and eccentric component. I would probably keep those below 20%. Same goes for the nature of a sled push unless it’s really light, it’s going to really hammer your lungs.

If you’re doing long repeated step-ups try to use a box that’s 75% of your shin height. I’ve found with step-ups if your doing them non stop to simulate a real hill, you need a lot more weight than if you were outside or on a Stairmaster to elicit that consistent burn. Probably like 60+ pounds if you’re already pretty strong and conditioned.

a good way to break it up might look like:

15 minutes step-ups w/30-40% bodyweight
5 minutes lunges, sled push, core
-pace yourself to stay right beneath Z3

Repeat to your heart -or legs content

Also I believe Scott Johnston recommends limiting total time of ascent or ME sessions to 90 minutes.