Mtn lion(s) kill 15 dogs in 30 days (Colorado)

[Lawnboi]

I think you are trolling, TBH. If you live in Northern Illinois you know damn well what's gone on with livestock, hound, and pet predation by wolves in Wisconsin. Or you are willfully ignorant of the facts just like you were about compensation for livestock losses.

I'm all for predators on the landscape just as I am all for putting bullets in them on a regular basis when they get too bold. But denying how much damage they do and have done is not factually honest.

Managing predators by feeling versus fact is popular. Hence the situation the folks in Nederland find themselves.

He can research it all he wants they are not in his back yard.

 

[Billy Goat]

Yes, I do. I also have a small orchard.

So how do you handle predators?


I'm not asking this to troll, just honestly didn't care for your responses about not caring about livestock predation. Trying to find common ground.

Where I'm at, the only way I can get reimbursed for predation is if it's actually from domestic dog, and short of having an actual picture of it happening, you probably won't be reimbursed, and you won't get a fair market value either.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

He can research it all he wants they are not in his back yard.

What's your point?

 

[sneaky]

You guys love bringing wolves up at every opportunity, lol. What happened? Did one grab your wife's ass at the bar? Has a wolf ever done something directly to you?

Wolves aren't going to hop fences in the suburbs. If you let your dogs run in the woods off-leash, sure you might lose one to a wolf some day. That's just the nature of things though and elicits no sympathy from me.

Outside of that, I don't see how wolves figure into a discussion about cougars doing cougar stuff. Am I missing something?

Wolves that aren't hunted will absolutely come in to town and kill cats, dogs, deer, elk, etc. What fairytale are you living in? That all stopped here when they started getting shot, but that'll probably never happen in Colorado.

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[Fatcamp]

If wolf populations explode in CO, will someone lose a beagle on a rabbit hunt someday? Probably. But I highly doubt it would become an issue like what you've experienced in Alaska.

This is what I quoted and am refering to. A post that you made minimizing a situation you have to know is very dangerous for peoples animals.

I'm keeping up very well with the conversation, thank you.

 

[sneaky]

I don't live nearby any significant number of them. There is a pack that ranges thru every so often. Does that matter?

That's a cool article! Thanks for sharing it. I always wondered if they ever killed lions.

The reason that lions climb trees is an evolutionary defense mechanism to escape from wolves. That's why hounds are the most effective way of hunting them.

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[Forest_Ghost]

When did I deny the damage that wolves do? Not one of you have shown me any proof that wolves are hopping people's fences and eating their pets! All you guys have done is keep posting about hunting dogs and livestock.

Try to follow along with the discussion better before making false claims about me.

 

[Elk botherer]

I was unaware of this. I wrongfully assumed that CO was handling it like other states were. Thank you for bringing that to my attention!

Maybe once they actually introduce wolves this year, they'll begin compensating ranchers like all the other states do? Or is that too optimistic?

The ranchers being compensated for wolf predation is a tricky thing. I have a friend that has a ranch that was experiencing a lot of wolf issues and the compensation they received was pennies on the dollar. To receive compensation, the rancher first has to get an agent on the kill site to confirm the animal was indeed killed by a wolf. More often than not, by the time the dead cow is found the carcass has been compromised enough by scavengers that it’s difficult to impossible to prove that wolves were the direct cause of death. If it’s a calf that’s predated upon there is likely just a bloody spot on the ground to show that something even happened. Once again, proof is gone and no reimbursement. They had several pairs that just disappeared and never received any reimbursement.

What can’t be compensated is the real loss to the ranchers herd. When wolves are present the cattle are constantly vigilant due to predator pressure that they don’t gain weight like they should because they aren't feeding like they should and on the move more. They become stressed to the point where the cows remain open after breeding and now there is no calf in the spring. No calf equals no future return on his investment in the cow. This years calves are next years profit. The rancher loses money on the cattle that have been killed and not found/proven to be wolf kill, lack of weight on his cattle when the sale rolls around, and reduced calf numbers in the spring. My friend’s ranch was reimbursed $2,500 or so (even though they lost 16 cattle) from the government but when he calculated their actual losses from the pack that figure was closer to $40,000. $2,000 a pair (cow and calf) and the herd at 20% reduced weight, few calves to turn a profit the next year it adds up. That’s a 1-2-3 knockout punch to a small rancher as their profit margins are slim to start with. The compensation ranchers receive is pretty sad actually. We did end up harvesting one of the wolves that was badgering my friend’s cattle. The ranchers aren’t getting a free handout from the government, that’s for sure.

 

[sneaky]

An argument could be made that wolves would push the deer and elk closer to human habitat, thereby increasing cougar/human interaction since cougars would follow the "food".

To your second point: Nobody that keeps their dogs in a fenced yard or on a leash should worry about wolves.

There have been dogs killed in N Idaho while on leash, and within feet of the owner. Wolves don't care, they are the dominant canids and fiercely territorial. Dogs will be easy meals for them once they figure out they aren't getting shot at around humans. Before they started being hunted here they were in town all the time, articles and pictures in the paper of them around houses. Once they started getting shot at that all changed.

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[JustSomeGuy35]

So how do you handle predators?


I'm not asking this to troll, just honestly didn't care for your responses about not caring about livestock predation. Trying to find common ground.

Where I'm at, the only way I can get reimbursed for predation is if it's actually from domestic dog, and short of having an actual picture of it happening, you probably won't be reimbursed, and you won't get a fair market value either.

I kill them, use netting, put up fencing and electric fencing. Depends on the critter. I have to contend with mice and bugs, all the way up to deer. In WV, I was given nearly unlimited deer tags for protecting my farm. Here in IL, I'm assed out with the deer because I'm too small of an operation. So I kill my allotted 2 per year and spend the growing season shooting them with airsoft guns when they get too close to my stuff.

Just so we're clear, I have no issues with people killing wolves that are preying on their animals. I don't care if people hunt wolves. What's the point of stocking critters that you can't hunt? I thought I made that clear before but maybe I didn't.

What I take issue with is the idea that a species of animal should cease to exist because of the interests of the few. I'm not a rancher nor a houndsman, which most people aren't, so I think it's only natural that I don't share the same level of concern that you guys do.

I also want it to be clear that I think it's only fair that gov't reimburses ranchers in places where they've stocked wolves. What the rate should be is beyond me but it should be reasonable.

Sorry to hear about the crummy circumstances you're in. I hope it gets resolved at some point!

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Wolves that aren't hunted will absolutely come in to town and kill cats, dogs, deer, elk, etc. What fairytale are you living in? That all stopped here when they started getting shot, but that'll probably never happen in Colorado.

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Do you have any articles to share about that?

Please, no more free range dog articles though. Dogs loose in the woods, being attacked, is not something that relates to the original discussion.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

This is what I quoted and am refering to. A post that you made minimizing a situation you have to know is very dangerous for peoples animals.

I'm keeping up very well with the conversation, thank you.

Ok, now I understand. Yeah, you're probably right that I was minimizing things. I guess all we can do is wait and see how things go in CO.

 

[Elk botherer]

Those are some crazy stories! Thanks for sharing them!

I mentioned in an earlier post that, in my opinion, Alaska wildlife is on a whole different level from our critters in the lower 48. I base that opinion purely on the differences in habitat and human interaction.

Who knows though, maybe down the road CO wolves will behave the same way. Certainly a few isolated events are possible.

I’m my opinion the wolves here in Idaho have the exact same disposition as the wolves in Alaska from my several interactions with them. They just stare you down like you’re a piss ant and give you no respect (unless heavily hunted, but even then they still have a certain degree of arrogance which is hard to describe). It’s eerie to lock eyes with one. We couldn’t shoot that one because that was the year the animal rights activists judge shopped and filed a lawsuit to shut down the wolf hunt even though Idaho was over a 1,000 wolves above the recovery objective. Spend some time around them and opinions change, just like the Colorado residents being plagued by the lions. Not trying to be combative, just relaying real world experiences.

 

[sneaky]

Is a 6.5mm spear big enough for lion or do I need to move up to a 308?

How flat is the brim on your hat?

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[JustSomeGuy35]

The reason that lions climb trees is an evolutionary defense mechanism to escape from wolves. That's why hounds are the most effective way of hunting them.

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Wow. I never knew that! It makes sense though. Thanks for sharing!

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Wow, that's some grisly stuff.

I didn't see any fences though. All I saw was dogs tied up, outside in the snow, left unsupervised, to contend with the wolves.

Were there good fences? I'm looking at a small phone screen so I can't tell for sure.

 

[Billy Goat]

Just so we're clear, I have no issues with people killing wolves that are preying on their animals. I don't care if people hunt wolves. What's the point of stocking critters that you can't hunt? I thought I made that clear before but maybe I didn't.

What I take issue with is the idea that a species of animal should cease to exist because of the interests of the few.

Should have lead with that.


We are in closer agreement with that statement than your previous lines have made things seem.


We can just agree that they need to be well managed.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

There have been dogs killed in N Idaho while on leash, and within feet of the owner. Wolves don't care, they are the dominant canids and fiercely territorial. Dogs will be easy meals for them once they figure out they aren't getting shot at around humans. Before they started being hunted here they were in town all the time, articles and pictures in the paper of them around houses. Once they started getting shot at that all changed.

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Could you please share an article about the leashed dogs being killed in front of owners?

It's not that I think it's unquestionable. It's just that I haven't seen any articles about it.

 

[Peteyrajks]

Wait for wolves and grizzlies in the future…

 

[sneaky]

Don't forget the fact that not only do they stress cattle and wild ungulates to the point they abort fetuses, but they also make it harder for working dogs ie shepherds and collies, to work the cattle because the cattle now try to kill the dogs because of their previous interactions with wolves. It's a loop that's hard to break out of.

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