Mtn lion(s) kill 15 dogs in 30 days (Colorado)

[Coldtrail]

Yeah, I don't care about livestock predation. They can sort that shit themselves, however they want, while getting paid a princely sum for NOT raising an animal to maturity.

And correct, I'm fairly indifferent to people losing dogs when they let them run loose in the woods. If your wimp dog can't handle nature, then keep it at home!

Ahhh......I think I have you figured out, have a nice day.

 

[Azone]

Liberals dont understand that killing the damn things would save their dogs. If they did those lions woulda been gone long ago.



I think we all know who has mindless opinions and set in stone ideas eithout experiences to match.

City dwellers gone country don’t understand a lot of things people raised in rural areas do.
What one person views as mindless, can very well be someone else’s real experience.

As far as I’m concerned the antis want an over abundance of predators to erode hunting opportunities and eventually take the privileges from us all. Sorry, but no one on the internet is going to change my mind on that subject.

But back to the subject at hand. As someone who has had a dog picked off by a cat it sucks. But when you live in their territory it’s just the cost of doing business I suppose. Can I blame the cat? Not really it’s acting on predator prey instinct. Did I wish the cat would be killed so I would not have to worry about one of my kids possibly being part of a very grim statistic, very much so. Would I choose the well being of an animal over the safety of a human? Not a chance in hell.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

I do understand the depth that the wolf people will go to.

Sometimes it is better to simplify stuff than to argue every little nuance.

In the case of the town terrorized by mtn lions. Why couldn’t they band together and remove the problem? They can’t agree to kill the cat(s). Silly. So the dog owners are sol.

In the case of the wolf people, they are insulated from their decision. They hope to hear a howl every now and again cause it gives em shivers. The problems caused by the wolves will be other people’s problems. So no harm done.

We have the same crap down here with black bears in residential neighborhoods and the folks who kill the bears stalking their kids get arrested cause the neighbors report them. Stupid shit, ignorant people thinking we can all live in harmony if we just have a bear proof garbage can.

They come out in droves to protest the bear hunts and got them stopped. So we have even more bears in backyards when the kids are out playing. As long as its someone else’s problem, its okay.

Rich,

I think I judged you too harshly earlier. I actually agree with every point you made in this post.

 

[southLA]

 

[FLATHEAD]

View attachment 496112

OG

Is that a SW?

 

[KHNC]

Hunters have just got to stop depleting the natural food sources of the lions! Damn, some top notch californians living in Nedder Nedder Land.

 

[*zap*]

Any living thing that tries to hurt my doggie will be receiving my wrath.. he is family.

 

[PathFinder]

Yeah, I don't care about livestock predation. They can sort that shit themselves, however they want, while getting paid a princely sum for NOT raising an animal to maturity.

And correct, I'm fairly indifferent to people losing dogs when they let them run loose in the woods. If your wimp dog can't handle nature, then keep it at home!

I'm afraid that some of your comments are showing a glaring lack of experience with western rural life. You've been rather reasonable overall so hopefully I can explain why your points above are incorrect.
Livestock growers in Colorado are not being compensated for the full value of a mature animal when an immature animal is killed. They are compensated for its value at the time of death. For western livestock growers, the time between spring and winter is essentially zero cost, at least for feed. That means when calves are killed and they are somehow lucky enough to actually be compensated for the value of the calf, they still lose a substantial amount of money.
On a more on-topic note that will tie into the comment about hunting dogs in the woods, there is no provision to compensate owners of dogs for the value of that animal. Most of the dogs in these story were essentially worthless in terms of dollar value, but that isn't true of all dogs.
Your point about wimp dogs in the woods isn't entirely off base. Some of them don't belong. However, people taking their pets in the woods are a very small percentage of the dogs being killed by wolves. Most of them are hounds like mine, and to call them wimps is false to the point of absurdity. They can run down and bay/tree lions, bears, bobcats, and even individual wolves with an intensity and drive that most wildlife can't duplicate. Canadian wolves are their only real kryptonite. A canine predator that is 3x their size, hunts in packs, and has a major anti-competition instinct is a bit much to ask for them to handle. There is no provision to compensate houndsmen for the loss of an entire pack of $3,000-$7,000 dogs, much less the time it takes to train them. All because a bunch of people with no knowledge, experience, or tangible investment in nature thought it sounded like a nice idea.

 

[Gadjet]

I find it interesting that the Boulderites that want the wolves back all of a sudden want these terrible dog killing cats to be exterminated. Everything is all rainbows and unicorns with these people until they're in their back yard. Must be why they're putting the wolves on the western slope!

 

[AKBorn]

An argument could be made that wolves would push the deer and elk closer to human habitat, thereby increasing cougar/human interaction since cougars would follow the "food".

To your second point: Nobody that keeps their dogs in a fenced yard or on a leash should worry about wolves.

Not trying to be a jerk, but offering one contradictory data point (altho I don't have the article fresh at hand to bac it up...)

About 10-12 years ago, 2-3 women were walking their dogs on a hiking trail in Anchorage Alaska. It was wintertime, and snow was on the ground. Some wolves appeared on the hiking trail, and tried to take the woman's dog while she and the other women screamed at it. This woman professed that up to that point she had been on the "wolves are basically harmless" bandwagon, but after what she saw firsthand, she said that she needed to alter her viewpoint and acknowledge that wolves could pose some danger, even in a metropolitan setting.

There was also a case 10-15 years back where a pack of wolves tracked a woman who was jogging in a rural Alaskan village, ran her down and killed her. She was a schoolteacher I believe.

 

[ethan]

What grain weight spear head should one use for a lion spear........asking for a friend.....

 

[Mountainrancher]

Not trying to be a jerk, but offering one contradictory data point (altho I don't have the article fresh at hand to bac it up...)

About 10-12 years ago, 2-3 women were walking their dogs on a hiking trail in Anchorage Alaska. It was wintertime, and snow was on the ground. Some wolves appeared on the hiking trail, and tried to take the woman's dog while she and the other women screamed at it. This woman professed that up to that point she had been on the "wolves are basically harmless" bandwagon, but after what she saw firsthand, she said that she needed to alter her viewpoint and acknowledge that wolves could pose some danger, even in a metropolitan setting.

There was also a case 10-15 years back where a pack of wolves tracked a woman who was jogging in a rural Alaskan village, ran her down and killed her. She was a schoolteacher I believe.

Yeah I imagine a lot of viewpoints are being altered by the people in and around Nederland. I’m surprised cpw has been hesitant to bring in hounds and use lethal force against these cats. I can only imagine this is do to push back from people in the public forums and also from people privately contacting the field officer or the cpw. Seems like the only people calling for the killing of the cats are the people directly affected by them. Purely speculative but I would guess most of those people would have been against lethally removing cats until Fido was eaten. Hopefully cpw can grow a set and go in and enforce the laws they have in place to protect property and people from problem cats. They just have to be able to tune out all the bitching from boulder.

 

[Mountainrancher]

What grain weight spear head should one use for a lion spear........asking for a friend.....

Is a 6.5mm spear big enough for lion or do I need to move up to a 308?

 

[ethan]

Is a 6.5mm spear big enough for lion or do I need to move up to a 308?

It depends on what camo you're wearing......

 

[Coldtrail]

I'm afraid that some of your comments are showing a glaring lack of experience with western rural life. You've been rather reasonable overall so hopefully I can explain why your points above are incorrect.
Livestock growers in Colorado are not being compensated for the full value of a mature animal when an immature animal is killed. They are compensated for its value at the time of death. For western livestock growers, the time between spring and winter is essentially zero cost, at least for feed. That means when calves are killed and they are somehow lucky enough to actually be compensated for the value of the calf, they still lose a substantial amount of money.
On a more on-topic note that will tie into the comment about hunting dogs in the woods, there is no provision to compensate owners of dogs for the value of that animal. Most of the dogs in these story were essentially worthless in terms of dollar value, but that isn't true of all dogs.
Your point about wimp dogs in the woods isn't entirely off base. Some of them don't belong. However, people taking their pets in the woods are a very small percentage of the dogs being killed by wolves. Most of them are hounds like mine, and to call them wimps is false to the point of absurdity. They can run down and bay/tree lions, bears, bobcats, and even individual wolves with an intensity and drive that most wildlife can't duplicate. Canadian wolves are their only real kryptonite. A canine predator that is 3x their size, hunts in packs, and has a major anti-competition instinct is a bit much to ask for them to handle. There is no provision to compensate houndsmen for the loss of an entire pack of $3,000-$7,000 dogs, much less the time it takes to train them. All because a bunch of people with no knowledge, experience, or tangible investment in nature thought it sounded like a nice idea.

These are all good points, but I've never met a pro-wolf person with a mind open enough to be willing to make any attempt understand any of this.

Fact is wolves are sucker punchers, they attack animals that are not a threat, most hounds are killed by wolves when they are at the tree and looking up howling, not running through the woods picking fights with wolves as the pro wolf crowd would like to believe. Fact that as has been proven in WI time after time, when the wolves become the prey with hounds on their tail they react like prey and run like hell and get shot by hunters cutting them off....same as a lion. Take a target rich environment of docile creatures/food sources like suburban backyards and they have a feast and will set up shop. Eliminate hunting and they will stay there to only become more bold. Anyone thinking otherwise doesn't know anything about predators.

Studies also show that wolves disperse mountain lions due to lack of food available for both, lions are solo and wolves run in packs so we know who wins. Wolves are also hard on kittens & cause lions to disperse elsewhere..... everything in nature is connected, add a new part to the equation and everything changes. Throw wildlife management opinions into the mix instead of sound science & historical data and you get a big mess...like Colorado

 

[KHNC]

Yeah, I don't care about livestock predation. They can sort that shit themselves, however they want, while getting paid a princely sum for NOT raising an animal to maturity.

And correct, I'm fairly indifferent to people losing dogs when they let them run loose in the woods. If your wimp dog can't handle nature, then keep it at home!

Typical Illinois response. How are you people taught to live up there in that country anyway?

 

[KHNC]

Dont forget that wolves have been known to kill the fuzzy bears while they hibernate in their dens too. Sweet Sweet furry animals for sure.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Livestock growers in Colorado are not being compensated for the full value of a mature animal when an immature animal is killed. They are compensated for its value at the time of death. For western livestock growers, the time between spring and winter is essentially zero cost, at least for feed. That means when calves are killed and they are somehow lucky enough to actually be compensated for the value of the calf, they still lose a substantial amount of money.

I was unaware of this. I wrongfully assumed that CO was handling it like other states were. Thank you for bringing that to my attention!

Maybe once they actually introduce wolves this year, they'll begin compensating ranchers like all the other states do? Or is that too optimistic?

 

[fishslap]

Hunters have just got to stop depleting the natural food sources of the lions! Damn, some top notch californians living in Nedder Nedder Land.

I heard of a neighboring Ward resident telling a hunter that if the hunter killed a black bear, he would kill him. That’s the front range hippie mountain attitude around their sh!t hole properties. They don’t consider how their properties, dogs, and recreation affect the wildlife but they vehemently oppose controlled and managed hunting.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Your point about wimp dogs in the woods isn't entirely off base. Some of them don't belong. However, people taking their pets in the woods are a very small percentage of the dogs being killed by wolves. Most of them are hounds like mine, and to call them wimps is false to the point of absurdity. They can run down and bay/tree lions, bears, bobcats, and even individual wolves with an intensity and drive that most wildlife can't duplicate. Canadian wolves are their only real kryptonite. A canine predator that is 3x their size, hunts in packs, and has a major anti-competition instinct is a bit much to ask for them to handle. There is no provision to compensate houndsmen for the loss of an entire pack of $3,000-$7,000 dogs, much less the time it takes to train them. All because a bunch of people with no knowledge, experience, or tangible investment in nature thought it sounded like a nice idea.

Right, I wasn't referring to hounds as wimps. I wasn't clear on that so I'm glad you pointed that out.

With that said, I don't see why it should be anyone's concern if a hunter loses some dogs to predation. There are risks involved in pretty much any activity and by engaging it that activity, you assume the risks. Exterminating wolves to extinction because a small percentage of people want to let their dogs run free just doesn't sound right to me.

I can absolutely understand why you feel the way you do though.

Fwiw, I love dogs and have owned them most of my life so I don't revel in the idea of someone's pup getting killed or maimed. Because I loved my dogs and wanted to keep them safe, I never let them roam free. I understand hunting dogs are working dogs and that you all love them just as much. I guess we just differ on how much risk we're willing to take with them.

Lastly, I don't know what you define as "rural western living" so I'm going to leave that alone and agree that, by your definition, I must be ignorant.

Thanks for the conversation!