mRNA vaccine and protien production

[WhiteOak]

I would like very much for this post to generate an honest straight forward discussion free of any shaming, flaming, or mudslinging... I really would just like to know if anyone has the same concerns about this new Covid mRNA vaccine or has any knowledge to put said concern to rest. Seeing as hunters probably have more knowledge of prion disease than the general population due to CWD I figured this would be a good forum to generate discussion and I have not seen this brought up anywhere, I have been trying to research to calm my own concerns...

The Covid vaccine is different than any other approved for use vaccine in history as it is a mRNA vaccine apposed to a dead or weakened virus vaccine. Instead of the vaccine being an actual virus cell under a controlled dose to build immunity, mRNA or messenger RNA is a concoction or genetic instructions for your body to produce a protein that will trigger a antibody response to target the outer layer of the targeted virus...

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-are-mrna-vaccines-so-exciting-2020121021599

From the link...
Viruses contain a core of genes made of DNA or RNA wrapped in a coat of proteins. To make the coat of protein, the DNA or RNA genes of the virus make messenger RNA (mRNA); the mRNA then makes the proteins. An mRNA of a specific structure makes a protein of a specific structure.

Am I the only one making a connection between an experimental vaccine meant to make your body product a protein to a type of prion disease aka neurological disease such as TSE CWD Mad cow. I may just be paranoid and un educated but knowing that these diseases are cause by prions or misfolded infectious proteins causes me great concern for a fast tracked first of it's kind emergency approved vaccine that instructs your body to create a protein.

I have tried searching but could not find anywhere else that makes this link. I may be way off base and hope that I am. Has anyone else thought about this?

 

[7Bartman]

No, they are not related. Prions are caused by genetic or environmental pathological misfolding of a protein that can cause a range of neurodegenerative diseases, while this vaccine is just a messenger RNA (mRNA) in a lipid (i.e. fat) globule utilizing our cellular machinery to make a surface protein that the SARs-CoV2 uses to bind to and enter certain types of cells. The reason for the lipid globule is that a naked mRNA would quickly get destroyed by nucleases (protein scissors) that recognize and quickly destroy foreign RNA/DNA as these typically represent a threat to us.
This vaccine is doing what viruses do, however it's just got the mRNA to make surface protein, and not the entire virus.
NO need for concern.

 

[pete]

No connection at all. I also think it's important to remember that when people say that the trial/approval was fast-tracked, that's only in comparison to the normal (very long) approval process. IIRC, the Pfizer trial enrolled 40k+ trial participants.

 

[fightthenoise]

Prions are specific proteins misfolded in a specific way that causes other proteins (the same ones) to misfold. It’s a very rare event, with only the PRNP gene in humans (if I remember right) able to do this. It’s not a generalizable property of misfolded proteins. Misfolded proteins happens all the time and they are degraded by cellular machinery. Same thing with mRNA - all kinds are constantly getting transcribed and degraded 24/7.

The mRNA sequence in the vaccine is a specific set of instructions for a specific protein that doesn’t have those pathogenic misfolding properties. We can model this computationally. If it makes you feel any better, you likely have billions of misfolded proteins in your body this very moment!

 

[WhiteOak]

Appreciate it guys. Clearly my surface level knowledge or lack thereof was just enough to be dangerous ie completely wrong.

 

[WhiteOak]

If it makes you feel any better, you likely have billions of misfolded

Lol Damnit!, stinking proteins. I'll get back to my day job now.

 

[bobr1]

Yeah this is not the same. All vaccines cause an immune response that produces antigens (proteins) that stay in your body and allow it to recognize and quickly initiate an immune response to a virus and kill it before it can truly become an infection.
Look I understand all the paranoia and people not understanding the science involved with this stuff. But just remember, if the government or ultra powerful want to kill off people or thin out the herd they are not going to target healthcare providers, who are for the majority taking the vaccines currently. The one thing the elites really care about is Not Dying, so I would think they would not want there physicians or other health care providers dead or with a prion neurodegenerative disease.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

What worries me is what Elon musk spoke about when discussing his excitement about the future of mRNA technology. I don’t trust our government to begin with and I work for them. Let alone trust a company whom they sued already to fast track a genetic instruction manual for my cells. Nope I’m good.

 

[street]

What worries me is what Elon musk spoke about when discussing his excitement about the future of mRNA technology. I don’t trust our government to begin with and I work for them. Let alone trust a company whom they sued already to fast track a genetic instruction manual for my cells. Nope I’m good.

We probably need to rewatch the matrix.

 

[Marbles]

Some good answers. I will tread some of the same ground. Prion disease causes proteins that already exist in your body to become denatured (i.e. folded wrong). The incorrectly folded proteins have the ability cause other proteins (of the same type) to fold wrong. Thus it can sort of reproduce itself. You could think of them as zombie proteins in that reproduction does not refer to the actual creation of something new, but the conversion of something functional to something pathologic. Not just any protein can cause this; which is why it is safe to eat meat, but the brain and spine of animals is no longer recommended for consumption.

Something else to consider, corona viruses reproduce by using mRNA to instruct your cells to produce the viral proteins. So, if you get SARS-CoV-2 you will have mRNA in many of your cells instructing your cells to produce a similar protein along with several others. So, like live attenuated and component vaccines, this one is just copying nature.

mRNA is also not very persistent within cells, there is no plausible mechanism for your cells to continue producing the spike proteins for any length of time after receiving the vaccine. Your body actually relies on this lack of persistence every day, otherwise it could not turn genes on and off.

Think of mRNA like a paper template, with limited use it wears out and must be replaced. DNA could be thought of as a steel template that due to a lack of flexibility cannot be used in the actual production of the part. So, you copy the steel template (DNA) onto paper (RNA) and use the paper to make the part, but you must continually be supplied with more paper templates or you cannot continue production. The plant manager uses this, rather than telling you how many parts he wants, he just stops giving you paper templates when he has enough parts.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

The Covid vaccine is different than any other approved for use vaccine in history as it is a mRNA vaccine apposed to a dead or weakened virus vaccine.

"The use of RNA vaccines goes back to the early 1990s. The in vitro demonstration of mRNA in animals was first reported in 1990,[55] and use as immunization proposed shortly thereafter"

mRNA vaccine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is not the first mRNA vaccine. However, this is the first one licensed for use on humans. In reading the test results, things look good so far. There has been very few cases of severe side effects.

 

[RyanT26]

This is not the first mRNA vaccine. However, this is the first one licensed for use on humans. In reading the test results, things look good so far. There has been very few cases of severe side effects.

I’m sure you wrote that to make us feel better but very few cases of severe side effects on a vaccine thats only been in use on humans for a couple months still doesn’t make me want to jump to the front of the line.
Is a few 3-5 or 300-500 or 1000’s?

 

[NDGuy]

Is a few 3-5 or 300-500 or 1000’s?

1 out of a few thousand is better than Covid odds so far...and I haven't read anything that suggests anything further than allergic reactions. Was there anything in addition to those?

From reading the past threads, I understand and agree with some skepticism though. It's not a no brainer decision without knowing the long term effects of either one. But it's a decision that will need to be made by everyone eventually.

 

[willfrye027]

Good news...you have time to watch for “side effects” in all the front line people getting it now. It’ll be awhile before it’s out there for the public.

in terms of “side effects” I do have a sore arm and yesterday I felt super tired and achy. Probably my body building it’s immune response.

ill let ya know if anything serious happens. If I suddenly start espousing liberal ideals then you know they’ve got my brain, go ahead and take me out of my misery

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I’m sure you wrote that to make us feel better but very few cases of severe side effects on a vaccine thats only been in use on humans for a couple months still doesn’t make me want to jump to the front of the line.
Is a few 3-5 or 300-500 or 1000’s?

Here is primary source material from the New England Journal of Medicine on the BNT162b2 vaccine created by Pfizer:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

Here is the primary source material for the Moderna vaccine, mRNA-1273:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2028436

You can read for yourself, as all should. Better to get real information instead of a friend of a friend or what is often read second hand on the internet.

 

[NDGuy]

Here is primary source material from the New England Journal of Medicine on the BNT162b2 vaccine created by Pfizer:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

Here is the primary source material for the Moderna vaccine, mRNA-1273:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2028436

You can read for yourself, as all should. Better to get real information instead of a friend of a friend or what is often read second hand on the internet.

One thing I saw that was cool is they did a great job with getting an older demographic and that a good chunk of the people had an existing condition and/or were overweight. Since those are the most affected by covid it's good news it seems to work as intended!

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

One thing I saw that was cool is they did a great job with getting an older demographic and that a good chunk of the people had an existing condition and/or were overweight. Since those are the most affected by covid it's good news it seems to work as intended!

Yes. I agree. And thank you for reading. It can be a bit tiresome and hard to understand the terms, but when it is your health, best to be sure and take your time. Others who go out and want to get the short version, but then distrust that version... I don't know.

Listen up kids, get the information straight from a reliable source. You'll live longer.

 

[widnert]

Still not racing to sign-up as an early volunteer. Is there way to be on the list as the very last? Messing around with DNA is some scary stuff to me. I believe I will be waiting as long as possible, if not altogether avoiding this injection. I want to see what everyone turns into to see if there are some new hunting opportunities as the side effects slowly develop over time. Let's see.....zombie hunting checklist item #22.....

 

[willfrye027]

If I was a zombie I’d probably be one of the I am Legend types vs the walking dead lame ass walkers.

and I’m bringing my tikkas with me to the zombie afterlife so yeah watch out for the zombie carrying a tikka topped with a SWFA

 

[Schism]

My wife received the vaccine approximately 10 days ago and besides a sore shoulder has had no side effects. She will receive the second dose on January 4. I'm not aware of any of her colleagues experiencing any side effects of the vaccine either.

Being a front line worker she's a member of a Facebook group for medical professionals. Some people who were participants of the vaccine trials were "unblinded" so that those who received placebos would have the chance to receive the real vaccine. Some members of the trial (and of the Facebook group) posted they learned they received the real vaccine back in September and have had no side effects, or Covid-19.