Haven't tried them myself, but they seem to penetrate somewhere in between an expanding HP and flat nosed hardcast. Expanding 9mm bullets are probably fine for most black bear issues, but I'd suggest that a hardcast flat nose is probably a more reliable all around bear defense bullet. There's not nearly as much data on handgun bullet performance on bears, but FN hardcast has a pretty well established track record (part of that could be that it's probably the most often used in those situations - but either way, it's a known commodity).
Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols
- Thread starter HighUintas
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HighUintas
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It appears that the safety is engaged on the pistol in that picture. The lever is in the up position (safety) and when the safety is off on that pistol a red dot is exposed indicating it's off.
My want for a manual safety is to have 100% control over whether the gun will fire or not when it is in my hand or in the holster. The safety lever physically blocks the sear from dropping in a p365, so it is impossible for the gun to fire if the safety is on. While the gun does have a trigger released safety mechanism, I don't think it is an unreasonable possibility that junk or ice could get into that mechanism and prevent the striker block from doing it's job without the trigger being pulleded, ie blocking the striker. The manual safety gives a visual and physical confirmation that the gun won't fire. I can't think of a way that the manual safety wouldn't work if it is engaged.
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HighUintas
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Consensus? I think you're in the wrong isle...
That's a good question. IMO it depends somewhat on the physical dimensions and placement of the safety. The P365 safety looks pretty good sized and well thought out, so it's probably easy to deactivate consistently. The safety on a Ruger SR9 for example, is pretty small and far back, and can be less intuitive or even missed (and one side of your hand can hold one side up while the thumb is trying to push the other side down). With so many variations in safeties, it's probably hard to have a consensus.
I think a striker fired pistol with a pre-cocked, short travel light trigger and a full-size 1911 style thumb safety would be great.
I'm too cheap to buy much factory ammo...and like messing with stuff..so
I found the little brother 9mm version of my 275 grain 45 bullet, from Matt's Bullets (pretty sure it's a Lee 158 WFN design). This might be about as good as I've found for a 9mm bear defense load. Feed great and 1,000+ fps is pretty easy to do from a 4" barrel if desired. Meplat is about 0.275", so about 77%. Probably can't get much higher than that. I had him cast mine in 18 Brinell alloy.
L-R 275 45, 160 WFN 9mm, 158 SWC, 147 FP
Compared to Underwood and 158 SWC loads
Loading depends on your pistol. The short loaded 160 fits the chambers of all the 9mms I tried. The long one actually fits fine in my Rugers, and one other, but that's it. I was surprised how much the leades varied. Loading short works best with lightweight brass (Speer/Federal/Blazer - all basically the same) but not heavier stuff, especially military headstamp brass.
Oh, and almost forgot...last Saturday I got home late from a town trip and when my dog arrived behind my truck she went on full bear alert, hackles up, stiff legged bouncing into the trees (about 10 ft visibility), I carefully followed (carrying a 9mm...) but whatever was there apparently didn't want to play. The next day I found a big wad of grizzly undercoat about 40 feet from the front door, and 10 feet from the wood pile...I guess we just barely missed each other...
I found the little brother 9mm version of my 275 grain 45 bullet, from Matt's Bullets (pretty sure it's a Lee 158 WFN design). This might be about as good as I've found for a 9mm bear defense load. Feed great and 1,000+ fps is pretty easy to do from a 4" barrel if desired. Meplat is about 0.275", so about 77%. Probably can't get much higher than that. I had him cast mine in 18 Brinell alloy.
160 Grain Round Flat (.359)-359-160-RF
www.mattsbullets.com
L-R 275 45, 160 WFN 9mm, 158 SWC, 147 FP
Compared to Underwood and 158 SWC loads
Loading depends on your pistol. The short loaded 160 fits the chambers of all the 9mms I tried. The long one actually fits fine in my Rugers, and one other, but that's it. I was surprised how much the leades varied. Loading short works best with lightweight brass (Speer/Federal/Blazer - all basically the same) but not heavier stuff, especially military headstamp brass.
Oh, and almost forgot...last Saturday I got home late from a town trip and when my dog arrived behind my truck she went on full bear alert, hackles up, stiff legged bouncing into the trees (about 10 ft visibility), I carefully followed (carrying a 9mm...) but whatever was there apparently didn't want to play. The next day I found a big wad of grizzly undercoat about 40 feet from the front door, and 10 feet from the wood pile...I guess we just barely missed each other...
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I'm too cheap to buy much factory ammo...and like messing with stuff..so
I found the little brother 9mm version of my 275 grain 45 bullet, from Matt's Bullets (pretty sure it's a Lee 158 WFN design). This might be about as good as I've found for a 9mm bear defense load. Feed great and 1,000+ fps is pretty easy to do from a 4" barrel if desired. Meplat is about 0.275", so about 77%. Probably can't get much higher than that. I had him cast mine in 18 Brinell alloy.
160 Grain Round Flat (.359)-359-160-RF
www.mattsbullets.com
L-R 275 45, 160 WFN 9mm, 158 SWC, 147 FP
View attachment 880842
Compared to Underwood and 158 SWC loads
View attachment 880845
Loading depends on your pistol. The short loaded 160 fits the chambers of all the 9mms I tried. The long one actually fits fine in my Rugers, and one other, but that's it. I was surprised how much the leades varied. Loading short works best with lightweight brass (Speer/Federal/Blazer - all basically the same) but not heavier stuff, especially military headstamp brass.View attachment 880847
Oh, and almost forgot...last Saturday I got home late from a town trip and when my dog arrived behind my truck she went on full bear alert, hackles up, stiff legged bouncing into the trees (about 10 ft visibility), I carefully followed (carrying a 9mm...) but whatever was there apparently didn't want to play. The next day I found a big wad of grizzly undercoat about 40 feet from the front door, and 10 feet from the wood pile...I guess we just barely missed each other...
That’s a great looking projectile.
@Formidilosus
I like the tape on the magazine. Noticed this issue as well. The 30 round magazine also makes me okay with a little tape.
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Exactly.
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HighUintas
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Is reloading my fired brass with those worth trying? I haven't loaded pistol rounds. If it's as much of a pain as rifle reloading, I'll skip it, unless it saves me significant moneyI'm too cheap to buy much factory ammo...and like messing with stuff..so
I found the little brother 9mm version of my 275 grain 45 bullet, from Matt's Bullets (pretty sure it's a Lee 158 WFN design). This might be about as good as I've found for a 9mm bear defense load. Feed great and 1,000+ fps is pretty easy to do from a 4" barrel if desired. Meplat is about 0.275", so about 77%. Probably can't get much higher than that. I had him cast mine in 18 Brinell alloy.
160 Grain Round Flat (.359)-359-160-RF
www.mattsbullets.com
L-R 275 45, 160 WFN 9mm, 158 SWC, 147 FP
View attachment 880842
Compared to Underwood and 158 SWC loads
View attachment 880845
Loading depends on your pistol. The short loaded 160 fits the chambers of all the 9mms I tried. The long one actually fits fine in my Rugers, and one other, but that's it. I was surprised how much the leades varied. Loading short works best with lightweight brass (Speer/Federal/Blazer - all basically the same) but not heavier stuff, especially military headstamp brass.View attachment 880847
Oh, and almost forgot...last Saturday I got home late from a town trip and when my dog arrived behind my truck she went on full bear alert, hackles up, stiff legged bouncing into the trees (about 10 ft visibility), I carefully followed (carrying a 9mm...) but whatever was there apparently didn't want to play. The next day I found a big wad of grizzly undercoat about 40 feet from the front door, and 10 feet from the wood pile...I guess we just barely missed each other...
It depends on how much of what you'll shoot...how much you dislike handloading...and how cheap you are!Is reloading my fired brass with those worth trying? I haven't loaded pistol rounds. If it's as much of a pain as rifle reloading, I'll skip it, unless it saves me significant money
If you’re okay with just carrying that Federal 147 FMJ FP you've been practicing with, which is what I'd carry if I were to buy factory ammo, I'd say "No!". So far from what I've seen, that ammo penetrates very well, is normal pressure and still does around 1,000 fps or a bit more in my pistols. Maybe that Federal Syntech is a good or even better option, but I have no experience with them.
If you're planning on buying a significant amount of "bear defense" ammo to function test and shoot, at $1.25+ a pop, loading something like these is a lot cheaper (and you can tailor it exactly how you want it).
At least some of that 9mm "bear defense" ammo seems to go a little overboard on their pressures. The only time I've seen a 9mm case bulge in my Canik is from that Underwood ammo. None of my handloads have ever done that, even these 160s at 1,060 fps in some of my testing and load workups. So a lot cheaper, and these loads with these bullets are probably a little better than any factory "bear defense" ammo out there, IMO.
Loading pistol ammo is easier and faster than rifle ammo, if you have even a cheap Lee progressive loader it goes pretty fast.
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Which model did you get?
I just got a C and I'm taking it to Steel Challenge next weekend.
Are you guys finding these for less than MSRP? My local dealer won't budge on price...I want a C as well...
RussDXT
WKR
Check 1911 addicts and ar15.com
Several c’s on both.
Several c’s on both.
C, I don’t shoot much pistol, time to learn.
The had “blems” on the website that were a little less than MSRP.
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I found a "used" one on gunbroker but was ready to go blem if outbid.
If a gun has a safety, I use it like I do an AR or any other weapon with a safety. On target and ready to fire - safety off, any other situation, safety on.Consensus? I think you're in the wrong isle...
That's a good question. IMO it depends somewhat on the physical dimensions and placement of the safety. The P365 safety looks pretty good sized and well thought out, so it's probably easy to deactivate consistently. The safety on a Ruger SR9 for example, is pretty small and far back, and can be less intuitive or even missed (and one side of your hand can hold one side up while the thumb is trying to push the other side down). With so many variations in safeties, it's probably hard to have a consensus.
I think a striker fired pistol with a pre-cocked, short travel light trigger and a full-size 1911 style thumb safety would be great.
I wouldn’t want to assume the safety is off, and turns out it actually got switched on by catching on another piece of gear. And vice versa.
If a gun had a safety that I didn’t consider quick, easy, intuitive to operate, I would buy a different one.
I carry glocks because I have to for work, and I like to keep my habits consistent. But if I had a choice, I think a manual safety 1911/2011 has some serious advantages for most uses.
RockAndSage
WKR
Good way to put it. And if I had to guess, I'd suspect a hell of a lot more people have had NDs with striker-fired guns than with single-action guns. Since Glocks first came out there has always been a theory and argument that "you'll forget to take the safety off in combat!!" by their supporters and most striker-fired proponents, that, somehow, they never seem apply to ARs or other long guns.
And it's not that they're totally, completely wrong - there's a seed of truth in it, for some people, in some circumstances. But they're also just not right enough to justify their breathless, absolutist protests, or to invalidate the utility of a safety lever.
We used to carry Glock 19 at work, now Glock 21.
As far as a pistol I need to rely on, as far as pistol I need to work when trigger is manipulated, function over looks, Glock all day long. Safe, reliable, easy to take down. When I wanna shoot comp or target practice I use the 1911s or revolvers and things for fun, but when it comes to doing work, Glock is the go to. As far as shoot ability, I’ve never noticed it being more or less difficult to handle relative to others over similar weight and caliber. As will anything, foundation work is key and if yiur carrying from a holster, and think you may need to retrieve it quickly, you better practice that more then you do lifting it off the table to shoot
As far as a pistol I need to rely on, as far as pistol I need to work when trigger is manipulated, function over looks, Glock all day long. Safe, reliable, easy to take down. When I wanna shoot comp or target practice I use the 1911s or revolvers and things for fun, but when it comes to doing work, Glock is the go to. As far as shoot ability, I’ve never noticed it being more or less difficult to handle relative to others over similar weight and caliber. As will anything, foundation work is key and if yiur carrying from a holster, and think you may need to retrieve it quickly, you better practice that more then you do lifting it off the table to shoot
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