More Colorado OTC archery units set to move to draw in 2020...

[5MilesBack]

REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS OF ELK FOLLOWING DISTURBANCE BY HUMANS DURING CALVING SEASON

That's calving season, not archery season.

 

[Poser]

That's calving season, not archery season.

True, but look at the first sentence of the post I was responding to: “If human interactions were calf killers...”

 

[GrumpyHiker]

If human interactions were calf killers, how are elk so prevalent and prefer to be around in communities like Estes Park and Evergreen? I agree that development of winter grounds can be an issue, but I think animals adapt to humans being in the environment just fine. I drive through Morrison a long Red Rocks every morning, and there are literally dozens of fawns running around right now with their healthy and fat parents. If human interactions were deadly, there wouldn't be a thriving deer population living in and around a music venue....right next to a hundred or so elk.

If human interactions are the problem, changing that is a far bigger fish to fry than the hunting population can affect on our own.

On a side note, I have knocked on the doors of two of the ranches in the area, and neither will let me take advantage of the leftover buck tags that are always out in 391 because they say there are a couple resident lions in the area and if the deer leave the lions eat their cattle....

Come on, man! The elk, or deer, in the examples you provided are accustomed to humans...lots; especially the "free-spirits" and idiots that frolic in the fields among them. Those elk are rarely, if ever, predated upon by humans...unless they eat too much of someone's lawn. Consider the areas where they are unrelentingly pursued by humans in the fall and then have to suffer human encroachment through calving season.

 

[sndmn11]

Come on, man! The elk, or deer, in the examples you provided are accustomed to humans...lots; especially the "free-spirits" and idiots that frolic in the fields among them. Those elk are rarely, if ever, predated upon by humans...unless they eat too much of someone's lawn. Consider the areas where they are unrelentingly pursued by humans in the fall and then have to suffer human encroachment through calving season.

That's the point, animals adapt quickly to changes in habitat as long as they still have food, water, shelter. Survival is THE priority. At some point these same animals that are accustomed, weren't accustomed, subspecies aren't popping up.
My belief is that if deer and elk populations are at a sharp decline, there's an active cause to it such as a predator surplus, or unknown disease.
The dots don't connect for me that developed areas that still provide food, water, shelter, are having animal overpopulation issues AND contact with people kills the young. The two don't agree.

 

[chindits]

What is the point of harvest data since it doesn’t account for other predation. I would rather have that money spent on winter range surveys for estimates of populations. Now granted, mild winter surveys will not be as accurate as harsh winter surveys. However, I would value that yearly survival data of all predation more than how the human hunters did that year. I have a guy at work who says there are no more elk because it was a low harvest year. That has no correlation to the elk I see all year not just during hunting season.

 

[HunterJoeMI]

Free or low cost unlimited bear and lion tags would sure help the calves. Need to kill the predators back to 1980 levels. But what do I know I am from Michigan.

 

[Poser]

Free or low cost unlimited bear and lion tags would sure help the calves. Need to kill the predators back to 1980 levels. But what do I know I am from Michigan.

They did drop the price of bear tags considerably this past season.

 

[ColoradoV]

Nice to see a place where a civil conversation about the subject can take place and lots of good points.

Also it is interesting that the colorado bow hunters ass (CBA) is using every back channel and unsavory method it can to undercut this proposal and as far as I can tell they are the ONLY ones pushing back against the idea... Not sure why they would take the stance but they will fight tooth and nail so their aging membership can still hunt OTC at the expense of both what most hunters believe is best and what is best for the resource .

Everyone I talk to feels the change would be for the better and that the CBA is off track on its thinking while only catering to again a aging contingent with in the Ass..

Would be a shame if the cba is successful in their effort to subterfuge a positive change as well as the entire process for just those who belong to and agree with the CBA... Make no mistake the CPW wants the change, most hunters want the change, but the bowhunters ass is fighting hard against the idea to satisfy the selfish aging membership.

Make sure and contact or send a email to your commissioners in support of what I see as a positive change for both most hunters and the resource.

 

[5MilesBack]

Their stance isn't just about being against the change......they're against ONLY changing the archery seasons to draw while leaving the rifle seasons unlimited OTC. As am I. Change both to draw and there wouldn't be a big dissent.

 

[Coveyleader]

Nice to see a place where a civil conversation about the subject can take place and lots of good points.

Also it is interesting that the colorado bow hunters ass (CBA) is using every back channel and unsavory method it can to undercut this proposal and as far as I can tell they are the ONLY ones pushing back against the idea... Not sure why they would take the stance but they will fight tooth and nail so their aging membership can still hunt OTC at the expense of both what most hunters believe is best and what is best for the resource .

Everyone I talk to feels the change would be for the better and that the CBA is off track on its thinking while only catering to again a aging contingent with in the Ass..

Would be a shame if the cba is successful in their effort to subterfuge a positive change as well as the entire process for just those who belong to and agree with the CBA... Make no mistake the CPW wants the change, most hunters want the change, but the bowhunters ass is fighting hard against the idea to satisfy the selfish aging membership.

Make sure and contact or send a email to your commissioners in support of what I see as a positive change for both most hunters and the resource.

Civil, you say, and then you snap off with all this aging blah blah blah, CBA stuff. Trust me, be happy (if you're a bowhunter) that someone is out there keeping us aware of issues and fighting for our cause. I hope you're a member.

 

[gelton]

“Most of the masses come for rifle season”

I’m just not convinced this is true. I scout every weekend of archery season and hunt 1st rifle. Maybe because I’m laid up recovering during 2nd rifle, my perspective is skewed, but many areas in the high country are usually no longer accessible by 2nd rifle which would further concentrate pressure. My observation is that archery season is the zoo. I can drive FS roads in September where there is a camp at every single available pullout. Hike trails mid morning and see 15 hunting parties hiking out. Around town, there are literal traffic jams of trucks with campers and horse trailers. Grocery store parking lots full of guys buying ice. I don’t see that kind of traffic during October. Maybe it’s localized and it’s certainly only the observations of one person and only in 4-5 of these units, so maybe it’s different.

I was thinking the same thing, I hunt in a unit near Durango and have hunted it during Archery, 1st and 2nd rifle over the last 7 years and archery is much more crowded than rifle season.

 

[MtGomer]

Good move. Should do it for the other units too. The law of diminishing returns will be in full effect on them.

 

[ColoradoV]

Fella's if they want a crap hunt in rifle so be it after a few years of that the rifle crowd will to come around. I dont see why a real and measurable steady decline in the archery elk experience in the sw should be tied to rifle..

It has to be said at this point that it is a fact - that locals in the SW are very much for the change according to the CPW... It is a fact - that vast majority of the archers who the CPW surveyed as well as talked with wants to see the change... At this point - again straight from the CPW's mouth going to draw is what they feel is best when you take in to account all the variables. I am not selling this - it is how the CPW feels.

Another fact I am not selling - is that if this does not pass will be due to the CBA protecting its "membership".... In this case protecting its "membership" is in direct conflict of what most bowhunters want who actually hunt the area, what most locals who actually hunt there want, and in direct conflict w what the CPW biologists feel is best for the resource.. As at this point the sole opposing party to the change is the CBA.

Are archers the only reason for the decline in the total experience in the SW?? You would have to be a fool to believe that as outlined above there are many reasons and unlimited rifle is no doubt one of them.. If we want better hunting for archery in today's environment from how I see it, how the locals see it, and how the CPW sees it going to draw only is the best decision.

Vote will be next week so wont be long until we will see if the CPW caves to a special interest group or does what is best for the most folks.

 

[5MilesBack]

I dont see why a real and measurable steady decline in the archery elk experience in the sw should be tied to rifle..

So you're saying that the "decline in archery experience" is why they are proposing this????? I haven't seen that in writing from them or even gotten that impression from them. I'm thinking there's more to this than just a decline in the archery experience.

 

[sndmn11]

I talked to someone yesterday and they said this proposed change is like having the first child on a strict allowance, while the second child gets money any time they ask. Bowhunters would be sacrificing while rifle hunters will continue without limits.

 

[5MilesBack]

I talked to someone yesterday and they said this proposed change is like having the first child on a strict allowance, while the second child gets money any time they ask. Bowhunters would be sacrificing while rifle hunters will continue without limits.

And that's kind of the way the CBA's point paper reads.........it's kind of whiny. I prefer to get to the bottom line of WHAT the problem is and WHY they are proposing this.......in order to come to a conclusion on how to fix the problem. If it's just about the "archery experience", there's a lot that goes into that experience, and the rifle seasons definitely affect that experience as well. But it sure seems that making both archery and rifle limited makes a heck of a lot more sense than just archery.....regardless of what the actual underlying reasons are........unless there's some other underlying lobby that's pushing for this?????? When things don't pass the logic test, and they smell fishy........it probably is fishy.

 

[trophyhill]

I agree with all above, why limit just archery and leave 2nd and 3rd wide open... doesn’t make sense to me... ? Is this a financial decision..? Would they loose to much money if 2nd and 3rd rifle was limited? I hunt in 81 and wish mine was include to help with the crowds..

It's about to become a little more crowded too!

 

[orionthehunter1]

I agree if the state truly wanted to manage the resource it wouldn't be that hard. I still say we need to go to all limited seasons with an 80/20 res to non res split and adjust tag fees accordingly. Also put in mandatory harvest surveys. This way CPW knows exactly how many people are hunting what units and how many elk are being taken instead of all this wag b.s. they post now. Anything but this or something similar is just putting band aids on a hemorrhage

 

[Hkbwpro111]

Makes absolutely no sense to limit one group, while not limiting another for the same resources.

 

[7mmshadow]

It’s Colorado we don’t like to use common sense here


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