More Colorado OTC archery units set to move to draw in 2020...

[sndmn11]

All rifle season cow tags are already limited - draw only. As in no over the counter cow Elk tags are available for those units whatsoever. CPW can adjust the number of rifle cow tags on a yearly basis based on their population estimates. So the rifle seasons are already mostly limited. 1st and 4th are ALL limited and 2nd and 3rd are "partially" limited already (for cows).

I hear what you are saying....If overcrowding and pressure are used as catalyst for change in the same sentence as population numbers, how do the cows know they probably don't have to worry during rifle seasons? None of these changes make any sense if unlimited licenses for any sex remain.

 

[Bhunt]

Guess I better get back out to my favorite spot before I have to draw that unit the next time.

 

[Bow Bullet]

Maybe it's because calf recruitment rates are low from getting chased constantly by half of texas and the midwest during the breeding season.

And they don't get chased by the other half of Texas and the Midwest during second and third rifle?

 

[tdhanses]

I agree with the overall route at reducing/limiting tags in these units and I also agree with you that if they are going to change archery status, then It should also apply to 3rd and 4th rifle seasons.

And 2nd, 1st & 4th are already draw in many of these.

 

[tdhanses]

That is a lot of harvest detail for a state not having any mandatory harvest check-in data. They know how many tags are sold but their harvest data is a guess.

Those stats are nothing but complete bs. Herd numbers are under 10k imo. They need to remove all cow tags.

 

[Str8shtr]

And they don't get chased by the other half of Texas and the Midwest during second and third rifle?

2nd and 3rd rifle isn't during the rut.

 

[sndmn11]

2nd and 3rd rifle isn't during the rut.

More animals are killed in those seasons than during the rut. If the concern is population numbers, you have to protect the breeding, the gestation, and the rearing by adult elk.

 

[bz_711]

IMO... the herd issues have more to do with increased Lion and Bear numbers... and less to do with pressure from outdoorsmen. Elk live close to human presence all the time, pressure has little effect...Lions and Bears eat calves.

 

[5MilesBack]

There are plenty of other areas in CO with insane archery season pressure that aren't having these number declines. Of course there aren't as many predators in those areas either. I have no idea how many elk the bears and cats kill every year, but perhaps the CDOW should look at this a preview of what wolves will do to an area as well. Restricting the archery seasons won't fix that. They'll have to restrict ALL seasons and manners of take at that point if they want to maintain their population objectives.

 

[orionthehunter1]

According to the five year bear study they did down here. Bears eat a ton of calves.

 

[JayTx]

Hunters are the low hanging fruit so to speak. If predators are that much of an issue then it becomes a political problem if CDW tries to do what is needed to make a substantial change. Like others have stated its probably more than one issue causing problems.

 

[Poser]

According to the five year bear study they did down here. Bears eat a ton of calves.

A bear ate 50# of my venison in unit 75.

That being said, I spent almost 50 days in the “elk country” of 74, 75, & 76 between July and November: scouting, Mtn biking and hunting 2 seasons and I saw exactly 1 Bear and the sign of 2 other bears (fresh tracks, freak poop). I saw bears in and around town frequently, but not in elk country. Observations don’t tell the whole story, but I’d expect to encounter them more of they exist in the numbers identified to be a primary threat to the elk herd. I didn’t see any lions or lion sign but they are so elusive that doesn’t mean much.

On the flipside, a collar based study in Vail last year that has been discussed on Rokslide several times suggested that a calf that has 10 human encounters has a 0% survivability rate. I’m not discounting bears, but I am starting to observe that hunters like to point fingers at other things they can hunt as being the primary problem instead of taking a hard look in the mirror. The default solution to any hunting problem seems to be “more hunting.” If you have these discussions in social media groups, it’s “more hunting” or it’s the wolves, even if they don’t exist in the region yet, but it’s still the wolves. I’m having a hard time buying the idea that “blaming it on the bears” is not a way of saying, “see? More hunting is always the solution.” It’s is a solution that hunters can deal with directly as opposed to towns built in wintering grounds and suburban sprawl and I get that, but it strikes me as a secondary solution and not necessarily a product of introspection.

 

[orionthehunter1]

You only saw one bear? My daughter and I both shot bears the first two days of the September season and they were the ninth and tenth bears to come in. I have trailcam pics on one pond that has forty different bears on it from July to the end of September. I have multiple pics with two to three bears at a time and no they aren't sows with Cubs. I agree it is a multitude of things but to brush bears off is ignorant. There is a reason the September limited season went from 200 tags to almost 600 the last few years. There is also a reason the non resident tags went to a hundred dollars.

 

[orionthehunter1]

My twelve year old daughter doing her part to save elk. Not a bad first bear.

 

[Loco4dux]

I saw more bears than elk in 70 last year and piles of shit every 100 yards.

 

[gretch6364]

I would hunt bears if I had more time to hunt, but I don't want to eat a bear...lol

I live in the Roaring Fork Valley and I hope they make the move to limited archery tags in the Frying Pan areas they have been discussing. Those units were bull only for archery last year.

I agree the problem is complex, but as someone that lives in an area where a ton of recreational users access the elk terrain all year long, I definitely think the loss of calves due to human interaction is a large part of the problem.

We need more protected areas during calving times, even if it is just more vehicle restrictions.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I agree but it would be nice if they would actually start enforcing the restrictions we have now.

 

[sndmn11]

I agree the problem is complex, but as someone that lives in an area where a ton of recreational users access the elk terrain all year long, I definitely think the loss of calves due to human interaction is a large part of the problem.

We need more protected areas during calving times, even if it is just more vehicle restrictions.

If human interactions were calf killers, how are elk so prevalent and prefer to be around in communities like Estes Park and Evergreen? I agree that development of winter grounds can be an issue, but I think animals adapt to humans being in the environment just fine. I drive through Morrison a long Red Rocks every morning, and there are literally dozens of fawns running around right now with their healthy and fat parents. If human interactions were deadly, there wouldn't be a thriving deer population living in and around a music venue....right next to a hundred or so elk.

If human interactions are the problem, changing that is a far bigger fish to fry than the hunting population can affect on our own.

On a side note, I have knocked on the doors of two of the ranches in the area, and neither will let me take advantage of the leftover buck tags that are always out in 391 because they say there are a couple resident lions in the area and if the deer leave the lions eat their cattle....

 

[5MilesBack]

On a side note, I have knocked on the doors of two of the ranches in the area, and neither will let me take advantage of the leftover buck tags that are always out in 391 because they say there are a couple resident lions in the area and if the deer leave the lions eat their cattle....

Sounds like a heck of an opportunity to make some friends out of these ranchers........time to get a cat tag.

 

[Poser]

If human interactions were calf killers, how are elk so prevalent and prefer to be around in communities like Estes Park and Evergreen? I agree that development of winter grounds can be an issue, but I think animals adapt to humans being in the environment just fine. I drive through Morrison a long Red Rocks every morning, and there are literally dozens of fawns running around right now with their healthy and fat parents. If human interactions were deadly, there wouldn't be a thriving deer population living in and around a music venue....right next to a hundred or so elk.

If human interactions are the problem, changing that is a far bigger fish to fry than the hunting population can affect on our own.

On a side note, I have knocked on the doors of two of the ranches in the area, and neither will let me take advantage of the leftover buck tags that are always out in 391 because they say there are a couple resident lions in the area and if the deer leave the lions eat their cattle....

It’s hard to link this because it is a PDF so google this content and you will find a very interesting study on human effects on elk:

REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS OF ELK FOLLOWING DISTURBANCE BY HUMANS DURING CALVING SEASON
GREGORYE. PHILLIPS,' of and Wildlife Colorado State Department Fishery Biology,
A. WILLIAM ALLDREDGE, of and Wildlife Colorado State Department Fishery Biology,
FortCollins,CO 80523, USA University,
FortCollins,CO 80523, USA

That being said, some elk, just like deer, do adapt to humans and live in close proximity, but that’s not the case with all of them. I have deer in my backyard that I can spit on from the deck, but doesn’t mean that stalking them in the mountains doesn’t have a pressure effect.