Mental Exercise: Wolves or Cattle?

Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
416
Location
New Mexico
Saw a post on another forum and it got me thinking. For the sake of this discussion let’s say one scenario is exclusive of the other ie. choosing wolves over cattle means that cattle never have and never will be there.

There’s two sides to this coin.

Heads:
Public lands are open to cattle grazing, you encounter cattle as you’re out and about much like we do today. Cows don’t bother us much while we’re out hunting, but they do compete with native wildlife for resources. Also ranchers sometimes lock gates and restrict access to some areas, like they sometimes do today. But otherwise, when you’re out hunting, you can expect to see some amount of cattle out on the landscape. An argument can be made that the presence of cattle and ranchers create certain impacts in the forms of ranch roads, dug- out cattle tanks, old salt blocks or feeder tanks left behind, etc.. Cattle can scar the landscape, but at the same time a road that a rancher has made is sometimes pretty convenient and cattle aren’t chasing the same elk I’m chasing.

Tails:
In lieu of cattle on the landscape instead, you know wolves could be there instead. They compete with you for resources ie. deer, elk, moose etc., and can have measurable impacts on those animals. Wolves were here before us, and so were deer and elk but we still often clash as a species. There’s a safety risk with wolves, here in my home state they built protected school bus stops for kids who live near wolf populations. But… wolves and no cattle means you’re seeing a different landscape. Think hunting the west, before the west was won. This scenario assumes the balance of nature as it existed before humans threw it off when we started to really take over. Often I fantasize about hunting the Western US before humans really spread out, I’m curious what the land would look like.

So let’s say you had to choose with a gun to your head, cattle or wolves?
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
2,446
Location
Idaho
There are probably plenty of us that remember hunting before wolves were introduced. Your heads description is exactly the scenario that I grew up hunting in the Payette National Forest in central Idaho. Being experienced in both scenarios, I’d take the cattle over wolves any day of the week.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
1,312
Location
Kirtland, NM
Cattle. I grew up elk hunting around cattle. I’ve called in a lot of elk right in the middle of cattle. I’ve also hunted areas so thick with cattle that there are no elk to be found so we move one drainage over and bingo! Elk city.
 
OP
Rusty Shackelford
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
416
Location
New Mexico
There are probably plenty of us that remember hunting before wolves were introduced. Your heads description is exactly the scenario that I grew up hunting in the Payette National Forest in central Idaho. Being experienced in both scenarios, I’d take the cattle over wolves any day of the week.
But that’s the thing, no one alive today remembers hunting an area that had never been grazed at one point in time. That’s why I think this isn’t cut and dry and is interesting to consider.
 
OP
Rusty Shackelford
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
416
Location
New Mexico
Without cows many stock ponds and developed water sources that support wildlife wouldn't be around.

Cows any day.
I recently read a book that speculated about how arroyos and drainages have multiplied since human expansion in the west, due to grazing, excessive erosion from lack of grasses and ultimately ground water disappearing. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but that’s playing a part in my thoughts now. And for the record, I’m undecided on what I’d choose. I have close ties to farming and ranching but part of me just wonders…
 

MrBlonde

FNG
Joined
Dec 26, 2022
Messages
15
Cattle. I’m just a little salty still though about the whole wolf thing here in Colorado.. since Denver and Boulder think they’re little cute forest puppies. Should have to watch a wolf pack eat a moose calf ass first before voting on that initiative.
 

TheTone

WKR
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
1,796
Area I was in today was absolutely pounded with cattle, unreal how grazed and dusty it was. The one water hole I found had a big group loafing around it and clearly not wanting to go anywhere. It was also nice seeing them all absolutely covered in noxious weed seeds. There was basically zero sign of elk
 
OP
Rusty Shackelford
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
416
Location
New Mexico
Not sure what the mental exercise is supposed to be. Wolves and cattle on the landscape are two very different issues.
Oversimplifying this but If you had the ability to hunt what was the undisturbed United States, or at least as close as you could get to what was the landscape before we spread all over it would you?
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
2,446
Location
Idaho
Oversimplifying this but If you had the ability to hunt what was the undisturbed United States, or at least as close as you could get to what was the landscape before we spread all over it would you?
Heck ya, I’d like to see what it looked like. I don’t think there was an 350” bull or 200” buck hiding behind every tree though.
 
Top