Meeker Colorado Wolf Attack
- Thread starter Slugz
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Wrong wolf shot in effort to stop WA wolves from preying on cattle
Washington’s Fish and Wildlife officials mistakenly shot a wolf pup when they were trying to cull the pack and stop further cattle attacks.
www.foxnews.com
isItFallYet
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I wonder how much helicopter fuel it takes to kill a wolf pup?!?Wrong wolf shot in effort to stop WA wolves from preying on cattle
Washington’s Fish and Wildlife officials mistakenly shot a wolf pup when they were trying to cull the pack and stop further cattle attacks.
MallardSX2
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"The state should trap the errant wolves and release them in some of the tent cities in the western part of the state, where they can keep the homeless population in check."
Some of those comments on that foxnew are priceless. lol
Some of those comments on that foxnew are priceless. lol
May I ask, nonconfrontationally, what makes your anecdotal second-hand experience any more valuable than that of the person you were replying to in this post? Why is ok for you to think that makes you informed, whereas someone else with second-hand knowledge is asked to provide you a link supporting what they say? I realize there are some moving parts here, and hopeful you can see the point I'm trying to make. FWIW, I don't disbelieve what you posted.
We all have varying and nuanced opinions on wolves. Often those opinions are based more on first or second hand knowledge, or more accurately, our perception of what we've seen or heard. I'm more apt to trust my own experience, or the experiences of people I trust, than I am to trust the internet, any government agency, or any organization with an agenda who might provide information through any form of media.
Wolf reintroduction has been/is being tried in a state bordering my own. Not so close to me that I have first hand knowledge of those wolves, or immediate concern about them being in the areas I live and hunt. But still, I'm not a fan. I especially question the wisdom of introducing or reintroducing predators to any landscape, given the vast changes that have occurred since they were extirpated from those landscapes. My gut opinion is we need to focus on managing the places and resources we have, rather than monkeying around with wolves (among other things).
I don't have a dog in the fight as far as Colorado goes. I can say that I would not want wolves reintroduced where I live. I'm not saying I know exactly what would happen, or how bad it would be. I'm saying I don't know and I see no benefit to finding out. One big reason for that is the charismatic nature of wolves to people who are and would remain detached from them, and the unlikelihood of wolf populations being managed the way game species are managed. I don't hate wolves, but I don't love them either. And at some point, I can see them being viewed the way coyotes are in my area - as varmints, with very little limitation on when they're hunted or how many are taken.
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Newtosavage
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JustSomeGuy35
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JustSomeGuy35
WKR
Hey now, those figures can't be true! According to one disgruntled fella, the CPW is lying about the numbers!
Haha
No, it wasn't a nice try. You missed my point. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough for you, but I'm going to leave it alone as I don't think it's productive for two people with no actual knowledge of living with a wolf population, or vested interest in CO wolf reintroduction, to bicker about it on the internet.Gray Wolves |
www.wildlifeillinois.org
There ya go! Nice try though.
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I was gonna say that those numbers are four years old and we have had some major fires since then but I’m not sure if we still know the full impact of yet. Hypothetically let’s say the fires did not kill a bunch of elk but how is their habitat now?
Another point that I think someone vaguely touched on here is how year-round recreation use is encroaching into winter range & calving areas and just humans in general are bumping the elk around. Primarily around the summit county and Vail Valley areas.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is let’s say the elk population is very healthy do we have the habitat to sustain it? If the answer is no then I don’t believe introducing wolves will be a good solution. There’s just too many side effects and unknowns, the biggest issue is the bureaucracy of managing wolves.
May I ask why a table from two years prior to the vote to reintroduce wolves, and two years prior to the pandemic that got a lot of people outdoors, is relevant to what @ckleeves posted? I'm not suggesting either one of you are right, I just don't understand where this chart fits in the discussion.
JustSomeGuy35
WKR
Your first point was that I didn't provide a verifiable source for my claim that wolves pass through my county. I have now provided you with a link that describes where wolves have been spotted. My county is listed in there. Thank you for asking for a source!
Yes, you should "leave it alone" that I am not a Colorado resident. I have as much right as anyone else to call out uninformed, mouth breathing opinions. Not once have I said that Colorado should get more wolves. All I have done is attempt to encourage people on here to get past their child-like hysteria, educate themselves, and make quality arguments. I understand that an informed opinion requires a little research and that most people don't want to stress their gourds that way. Still, I try.
Do I need to forsake all material goods, wander into the wild and "live with a wolf population", before I can ask people to provide sources for their opinions?
JustSomeGuy35
WKR
The good news is that wildfires generally improve elk habitat so you guys might actually see a jump in population over the next few years. If you guys want sources on that, I can provide them.
As far as suitable habitat goes, I don't really know. If everything I've read on here and elsewhere is true, then a small wolf population (>500) wouldn't be detrimental. But like you said, can you trust the bureaucracy to manage them properly?
ckleeves
WKR
Ahh yes 4 year old computer generated population “estimates”. Those are some pretty solid numbers there. CPW generated those when they did their winter herd counts in mid Nevurary.
It’s a good thing CPW hasn’t had to reduce cow tags and take units out of OTC lately. Oh wait….
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Newtosavage
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Strange how on a hunting forum, it's okay to discredit professional wildlife biologists, state game agencies and practically everyone except ranchers. The same folks who refuse to allow us access to land that does not belong to them. Talk about a sacred cow. It's mind blowing really.
Some errant thoughts from one of those wolf guys...
I think 35 has raised some real salient points and I believe it would benefit hunters to better understand those arguments. On either side of this issue, I think we let the least informed voices dominate the conversation. Wolf lovers characterize hunters as brain-dead fuds who love to kill while hunters characterize wolf-lovers as ignorant enthusiasts who believe wolves can do no wrong. Somewhere between those poles, however, we have some reasonable voices and I think 35 here is one such example. It's my opinion that better understanding his arguments will strengthen your own.
I think there's a lot of potential for hunters and wolf supporters to actually find common ground, but there's too much heat, still. Lot of generalizations and strawmanning going around and no one wants to be caught talking with the 'enemy.' But in reality, I think there's a strong overlap on wanting healthy, biodiverse ecosystems and preserving public access. And I know there are plenty of folks out there who love to hunt but also like having wolves around, just as there are a ton of wolf-supporters who also enjoy hunting. But somehow you have to pick which identity goes first and speak quietly about the other...
There's plenty to disagree about, too, but imagine the impact of joint statements from hunters and wolf advocates? If folks were able to really understand each other's arguments and hash it out, we could go to the commission with solid recommendations. I think in a lot of ways that's what the SAG has done and Lenny is one such example of someone who took the time to hear everyone out.
Anyhow, I'm sure it's all too much koombaya idealism, but it's a dream. I want wolves restored throughout the lower 48 and I also want to see hunting preserved as a right, with plenty of public access. I'm not an outlier, though the vocal extreme may make it appear so. I think a lot of us actually working on the issue come from a wildlife management background and appreciate the ins and outs, yet we're all undermined by the vocal groups seeking donations.
I think 35 has raised some real salient points and I believe it would benefit hunters to better understand those arguments. On either side of this issue, I think we let the least informed voices dominate the conversation. Wolf lovers characterize hunters as brain-dead fuds who love to kill while hunters characterize wolf-lovers as ignorant enthusiasts who believe wolves can do no wrong. Somewhere between those poles, however, we have some reasonable voices and I think 35 here is one such example. It's my opinion that better understanding his arguments will strengthen your own.
I think there's a lot of potential for hunters and wolf supporters to actually find common ground, but there's too much heat, still. Lot of generalizations and strawmanning going around and no one wants to be caught talking with the 'enemy.' But in reality, I think there's a strong overlap on wanting healthy, biodiverse ecosystems and preserving public access. And I know there are plenty of folks out there who love to hunt but also like having wolves around, just as there are a ton of wolf-supporters who also enjoy hunting. But somehow you have to pick which identity goes first and speak quietly about the other...
There's plenty to disagree about, too, but imagine the impact of joint statements from hunters and wolf advocates? If folks were able to really understand each other's arguments and hash it out, we could go to the commission with solid recommendations. I think in a lot of ways that's what the SAG has done and Lenny is one such example of someone who took the time to hear everyone out.
Anyhow, I'm sure it's all too much koombaya idealism, but it's a dream. I want wolves restored throughout the lower 48 and I also want to see hunting preserved as a right, with plenty of public access. I'm not an outlier, though the vocal extreme may make it appear so. I think a lot of us actually working on the issue come from a wildlife management background and appreciate the ins and outs, yet we're all undermined by the vocal groups seeking donations.
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I didn’t mean to discredit, just like to add points that don’t appear to be considered. Sorry if that came across as not valuing what has been said.
Lots of good points to chew on for everyone and well spoken.
@Mike Islander Here's one!! ^^^^
Mike Islander
WKR
I appreciate the thought. He's on my ignore list, at least for now. Makes really silly posts that I don't care to read.
Yeah i figured so after i read a few more replies. lol
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