Meeker Colorado Wolf Attack

[Customweld]

These 5 articles are worth the read. Most of them are written from a rancher/skeptic standpoint but looking back almost 30 years, the info provided is spot on. Some may claim that we are in an echo chamber, but 30 years down the road, I would predict that Colorado's experience is going to closely resemble Idaho's.
https://idrange.org/range-stories/?fwp_category=wolves

 

[svivian]

Strange how on a hunting forum, it's okay to discredit professional wildlife biologists, state game agencies and practically everyone except ranchers. The same folks who refuse to allow us access to land that does not belong to them. Talk about a sacred cow. It's mind blowing really.

Unfortunately these same exact same wildlife biologists also stated without question that there were no wolves in Colorado prior to Wolf introduction. Now that its a thing, all of a sudden populations are popping up here and there magically. So no, a lot of folks don't believe them on their numbers.... its their own fault.

 

[zrodwyo]

We will lose hunting some day and it won’t be because of wolves.

Hope everyone has the same psssion towards the real threats to hunting and firearms aka development and our exploding population.

 

[cnelk]

Another wolf attack on cattle - more recently

Wolves kill calf, gravely injure another in latest North Park attack

The attacks came just days after wolves are suspected of killing cows on White River National Forest land near Meeker, according to wildlife officials.

www.coloradoan.com

 

[cnelk]

Part of the article that some on here wont agree with....

VanValkenburg said he recently returned from Montana, where he joined other Colorado livestock owners and Colorado State University staff in learning how to coexist with wolves. Among that group was Lenny Klinglesmith, on whose ranch a reported 18 calves were killed Oct. 5 south of Meeker.

"We learned a lot of good information, and one of the main things we heard up there was lethal control is an important tool to have in the toolbox,'' VanValkenburg said. "They told us that is what changes wolf behavior.''

 

[cnelk]

Also:

To the Rokslide moderators.... How about a WOLF Forum.

That should earn your keep

 

[11boo]

These 5 articles are worth the read. Most of them are written from a rancher/skeptic standpoint but looking back almost 30 years, the info provided is spot on. Some may claim that we are in an echo chamber, but 30 years down the road, I would predict that Colorado's experience is going to closely resemble Idaho's.
https://idrange.org/range-stories/?fwp_category=wolves

Good read, and I suspect we will end up the same.

While urban environmentalists wanted to bring wolves back to Idaho to restore a top predator in the food chain, as time marched on, wolf populations grew, causing the negative impacts of wolf-recovery to fall on rural ranchers and the rural economy. Each item on the list can cut into a ranch business, one by one, undermining revenues and people’s livelihoods.

“It’s like a death of a thousand cuts. While no one of these things is very significant, it’s the cumulative effect that starts building up for a small business,” says Dick Gardner, a professional economist for Bootstrap Solutions.

“A rancher is in the forage business. They’re in the business of growing grass, either on their own home place, or public lands … making sure there’s plenty of grass, and it’s converted into pounds for calves or lambs that are sold, and that’s where they get their revenue. The story of wolf introduction to me is the story of ranchers reluctantly accepting the presence of wolves, but then see that presence grow and grow and cause these tiny ripple effects that no one anticipated really.”

 

[fngTony]

Also:

To the Rokslide moderators.... How about a WOLF Forum.

That should earn your keep

Honestly I thought about moving this thread but it doesn’t really fit in any one forum better than another so you have a good point.

 

[Newtosavage]

Unfortunately these same exact same wildlife biologists also stated without question that there were no wolves in Colorado prior to Wolf introduction. Now that its a thing, all of a sudden populations are popping up here and there magically. So no, a lot of folks don't believe them on their numbers.... its their own fault.

How on earth were you able to personally survey every single biologist? That's simply amazing.

 

[ckleeves]

How on earth were you able to personally survey every single biologist? That's simply amazing.

So are we personally talking to biologist off the record and going with that or with what CPW publicly says? Because your quoting elk numbers from CPW (who claimed no wolves) but now we have to personally interview every biologist? I’m so confused on this?

I’m not knocking many of Colorado’s biologist and wardens. There are some FANTASTIC ones out there that are very in tune with what’s going on out there and very knowledgeable not to mention just great people in general.

CPW is who I don’t always trust. I’m not sure upper management always takes the info they are given from the guys who are actually on the ground doing the real work and does anything about it. Much like a construction job, if you wanna know when it’s gonna actually be done ask the guys with the bags on and not the guy in the job trailer with the AC running. Your not gonna get the same answer from either of those guys and CPW seems to be the same way.

At this point CPW is highly politicized and if you believe everything that comes out from them then you might as well turn on CNN and get a big smile on your face with how great the economy is doing while you read up on how great elk numbers are doing in CO.

 

[svivian]

So are we personally talking to biologist off the record and going with that or with what CPW publicly says? Because your quoting elk numbers from CPW (who claimed no wolves) but now we have to personally interview every biologist? I’m so confused on this?

I’m not knocking many of Colorado’s biologist and wardens. There are some FANTASTIC ones out there that are very in tune with what’s going on out there and very knowledgeable not to mention just great people in general.

CPW is who I don’t always trust. I’m not sure upper management always takes the info they are given from the guys who are actually on the ground doing the real work and does anything about it. Much like a construction job, if you wanna know when it’s gonna actually be done ask the guys with the bags on and not the guy in the job trailer with the AC running. Your not gonna get the same answer from either of those guys and CPW seems to be the same way.

At this point CPW is highly politicized and if you believe everything that comes out from them then you might as well turn on CNN and get a big smile on your face with how great the economy is doing while you read up on how great elk numbers are doing in CO.

Can’t argue with a fool. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience….. they want everything spelled out and provide nothing in return.

 

[Jerryleesak]

We all must manage all wildlife populations including predators to maintain the balance required for healthy populations of game and livestock. Our biggest challenge is being effective in the regulatory aspect. Alaskans watched the nonessential reintroduction of wolves into areas they had been removed and thought what a tragedy.

 

[S.Clancy]

Also:

To the Rokslide moderators.... How about a WOLF Forum.

That should earn your keep

Sweet Jesus. If they do a "wolf forum" they should just set a hard cap of 50 posts before they automatically lock a thread.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

Honestly what the **** is this forum? I thought this was about hunting. Personally iIm really tired of the plight of the rancher, these people own thousands of acres, half of them don’t even live where they “ranch,” complain about wildlife “damages,” while they get heavily subsidized grazing on our federal public lands, and then they get cash from the government when predators kill calves too. Handouts at every turn, made al the more egregious when you stake your worldview on rugged individualism of the west, and bitch and moan about what makes that place rugged and wild to begin with.

And for those of you who somehow think wolves are killing all the game, you might want to do some napkin math on how many animals wolves kill vs humans, it ain’t close and it never will be. Humans kill more elk and deer by an order of magnitude than wolves do even when you only count hunting and not cars, habitat destruction, etc.

I do have to hand it to you though, I wouldn’t step foot outside if i was as scared as some of you are of lions, wolves, and bears OH MY.

 

[Customweld]

Honestly what the **** is this forum? I thought this was about hunting. Personally iIm really tired of the plight of the rancher, these people own thousands of acres, half of them don’t even live where they “ranch,” complain about wildlife “damages,” while they get heavily subsidized grazing on our federal public lands, and then they get cash from the government when predators kill calves too. Handouts at every turn, made al the more egregious when you stake your worldview on rugged individualism of the west, and bitch and moan about what makes that place rugged and wild to begin with.

And for those of you who somehow think wolves are killing all the game, you might want to do some napkin math on how many animals wolves kill vs humans, it ain’t close and it never will be. Humans kill more elk and deer by an order of magnitude than wolves do even when you only count hunting and not cars, habitat destruction, etc.

I do have to hand it to you though, I wouldn’t step foot outside if i was as scared as some of you are of lions, wolves, and bears OH MY.

Idaho's 2021 elk harvest stood at 20,396. Idaho's 2022 wolf population estimate stood at 1543. Using the estimate (by Idaho Fish and Game) of 16-22 elk per year, per wolf comes out between 24.5k and 33.7k elk killed. So, no hunting by humans does not come anywhere close to the numbers of elk that wolves kill per year.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

Idaho's 2021 elk harvest stood at 20,396. Idaho's 2022 wolf population estimate stood at 1543. Using the estimate (by Idaho Fish and Game) of 16-22 elk per year, per wolf comes out between 24.5k and 33.7k elk killed. So, no hunting by humans does not come anywhere close to the numbers of elk that wolves kill per year.

Except that’s not accurate. Those same numbers are used in other states with wolves such as back east, as high as 25 white tail per wolf per year, wolves in ID aren’t killing 20 elk, 20 whitetails, and 20 mule deer.

Hunters killed over 20k elk, 21k whitetails, and 26k mule deer. And those are all by and large adult, healthy animals, not the ones that are primarily being preyed upon.

The biggest impact that wolves have is on fawn/calf recruitment (although even that is debatable since black bear and mountain lions kill more neonatal calves), the highest predation rates in the state are about 30% of calf mortality attributed to wolves, adult females that rate drops to the low single digits. The biggest killer of adult elk is and always will be hunter harvest.

 

[Customweld]

Except that’s not accurate. Those same numbers are used in other states with wolves such as back east, as high as 25 white tail per wolf per year, wolves in ID aren’t killing 20 elk, 20 whitetails, and 20 mule deer.

Hunters killed over 20k elk, 21k whitetails, and 26k mule deer. And those are all by and large adult, healthy animals, not the ones that are primarily being preyed upon.

The biggest impact that wolves have is on fawn/calf recruitment (although even that is debatable since black bear and mountain lions kill more neonatal calves), the highest predation rates in the state are about 30% of calf mortality attributed to wolves, adult females that rate drops to the low single digits. The biggest killer of adult elk is and always will be hunter harvest.

They probably aren't killing 20 elk, 20 whitetails and 20 mule deer. These are older studies, but I doubt the numbers have changed much.

Near Salmon, Idaho, elk made up an estimated 90% of the wolf kills (n = 40) found by biologists working on a predation study for Lemhi County and IDFG .

During the first 3 years of an intensive predation study in Yellowstone, wolves killed at a rate equivalent to ~ 10.7 kills/wolf/year during early winter (Table 3) (Phillips and Smith 1997, Smith 1998). The rate increased to ~ 23.3 kills/wolf/year by late winter (Phillips and Smith 1997, Smith 1998). Elk made up 90% of the wolf kills examined.

 

[svivian]

So do we or do we not trust what our departments post in regards to accurate numbers? Just trying to understand from the Pro wolf side of this argument....

 

[Okhotnik]

First off it’s not introduction. It’s reintroduction. Big difference. Mountain goats in CO are an example of introduction.

Bang bury shut up? Shouldn’t promote poaching…

Big difference between non hunters and anti hunters….

Are you a non hunter or anti hunter then? lol

 

[Okhotnik]

How on earth were you able to personally survey every single biologist? That's simply amazing.

I attended wolf meeting when I lived in Washington state. It was clear from the beginning of the meeting that the biologist who helped run the meetings was anti hunting and she did not even bother to hide it.