Meateater: Ashby and Rinella

[Zac]

The popularity of this thread is proof we need to bring back Ranch Fairy. I like 480 grain arrows, but this place can become an echo chamber after a while of people that are placed in the middle of the bell curve.

 

[roosiebull]

I like Troy, Ed, and the THP. However my issue with all of this testing is just the bias. All the guys involved in the Ashby foundation already buy into the gospel of the 12 rules. They are all actively trying to prove the theories are the divine truth. If they wanted the absolute best scientific results they would take all that donation money and give it to Bill Vanderheyden. They also need to recruit some diversity in order to be taken seriously. Some will think this is a joke, however they need a Tim Gillingham on the board as well. This would be more like a fair jury panel vs a bunch of die hard Ashby cult members. Let the science be what it is, and accept the results.

you are spot on, but it will always be the way it is.... getting a Gillingham on the board will never happen.... giving a free "Dr Ashby" hat to anyone who shoots a 650gr arrow with 20+% foc might.... they have become promoters, not scientists.

i started listening to it this morning, and i will say again, Ashby has some great info, but he drank his own koolaid when his koolaid got popular.... it's a shame, because the project had potential.

i will say, his interest in "friction" got my interest up.... he doesn't claim to know yet, but that's always been kind of a crazy thing to me how super low energy setups with a good arrow/head combo seem to perform better than they should on game when compared to a very high energy setup..... there is something there.

at the end of the day, i don't care very much.... if it works, i don't need to know the exact equation of why... don't care, not information i would spend any effort trying to gather.

 

[roosiebull]

The popularity of this thread is proof we need to bring back Ranch Fairy. I like 480 grain arrows, but this place can become an echo chamber after a while of people that are placed in the middle of the bell curve.

i don't understand why some people don't like Troy.... he's good people. i'm not following his lead, don't watch his videos (not seeking that info) but he's a super nice guy, and regardless of opinions, he's trying to help others. i don't need a 700gr arrow and 30% foc, because i'm not having problems with my setups (wasn't even back in the day shooting elk with sub 400gr arrows)

 

[Mighty Mouse]

i don't understand why some people don't like Troy.... he's good people. i'm not following his lead, don't watch his videos (not seeking that info) but he's a super nice guy, and regardless of opinions, he's trying to help others.

Watch his videos and you'll understand why some people don't like him. I've watched a few and don't care for the Ranch Fairy shtick and outbursts of maniacal laughter. I wouldn't necessarily say I dislike him, just that his personality (as portrayed on YouTube) and mine don't jive. For many it may be the delivery, not necessarily the message, that sours them. His "adult arrow" comments (and associated implication that lighter weights are "children's arrows") probably also turn some people off.

 

[Kularrow]

Arrows are the PF Flyers of the Archery world, they make you run faster and jump higher. This such a sensitive topic because people are conditioned in this market to be invested in their arrows personally for whatever reason. You can read this forum all day long a guy says he has a VXR with 75# 80% mods at 79lbs just to shoot a whitetail and no one thinks twice but if shoots a 600 grain arrow at it that’s crossing the line. While I don’t subscribe to RF personally there’s hypocrisy when it comes to bows but not arrows.

 

[Billy Goat]

Arrows are the PF Flyers of the Archery world, they make you run faster and jump higher. This such a sensitive topic because people are conditioned in this market to be invested in their arrows personally for whatever reason. You can read this forum all day long a guy says he has a VXR with 75# 80% mods at 79lbs just to shoot a whitetail and no one thinks twice but if shoots a 600 grain arrow at it that’s crossing the line. While I don’t subscribe to RF personally there’s hypocrisy when it comes to bows but not arrows.

I think 600 gr for whitetail is way better than 75#.

Too many people don't realize the problems they are creating in form with that kind of weight, I didn't.


Each his own, I just don't like guys who are new to this reading everything and thinking they need to have some of this stuff.

They need good form, practice, and well tuned equipment.

 

[ZDR]

I think 600 gr for whitetail is way better than 75#.

Too many people don't realize the problems they are creating in form with that kind of weight, I didn't.


Each his own, I just don't like guys who are new to this reading everything and thinking they need to have some of this stuff.

They need good form, practice, and well tuned equipment.

This is spot on advice.

 

[Zac]

I think Ashby just needs the proper context. His test medium just happened to be water buffalo in Africa. He just took the opportunity that was afforded to him. If you are offended by Ashby just remember that he was given a specific niche task. I know that most of the readers here do not shoot Cape Buffalo with traditional equipment. Ashby is like the George Washington of bow hunting, and if you've ever bow hunted in Africa he deserves your thanks. Even Ashby said on the cast that the 12 rules can be used in whatever combination the user is willing to live with. When he elaborated on this he mentioned trajectory. People avoid this guy like he's an Antifa organizer. The 12 rules are like a buffet. If you want to eat everything than go for it. It doesn't hurt anything. You will just spend large amounts of money, and end up with a more reasonable build the next year. I spent over a grand on the Valkyrie Broadhead delivery System. I learned a lot, and now I shoot Easton Axis.

 

[Franger]

This topic fascinates me. I was a 3D competitor and whitetail hunter as a kid in GA in the mid-90s. Think my draw weight was 40#. I decided to re-enter the arena after 20+ years out of the game, this time for elk primarily and some fun shooting locally, no comps. The game has changed so much.

What seems most evident to me is that in those days, people used what shot good. Now it seems we all rely so much more on internet research and the most vocal experts. Ashby fits into that category.

Theres a guy in the mountain bike world named Chris Porter that runs Mojo suspension in England. He’s an ideolog like Ashby. He’s smart and he’s been around. And unfortunately, he’s also partially responsible for gravel path riding Jerry’s walking into bike shops and wanting crazy long bikes with 63 degree head angles. The extreme end of the arrow weight and FOC craze seems similar.

For reference, in my Mathews V3 at 65# and 28” draw, my preferred arrow build (510gr, 13.7% foc) has 249fps and 0.565 slugs. An Ashby arrow (650gr, 19% foc) has 202fps and 0.583 slugs. Difference in killing ability of those two arrows? Not sure If measurable.

What I do know is that at 40yds, one drops an 48 inches and one drops 72 inches. Even someone that hasn’t shot since 1996 knows that isn’t ideal. Cape Buff at 15yds and a guy standing by with a .416 rigby ain’t the same as shooting at a whitetail or even an elk. Say it louder for the folks in back.

 

[Beendare]

Each his own, I just don't like guys who are new to this reading everything and thinking they need to have some of this stuff.

They need good form, practice, and well tuned equipment.

Yes sir…you nailed it.

A bow and arrow is an amazingly efficient weapon otherwise how would so many animals have hit the ground with avg arrows?

But then a guy primarily preaching, 1) good shooting form and 2) perfect arrow flight and 3) efficient BHs on avg arrows …..won’t be invited to speak at the Pope and Young convention will he?


To your “echo chamber” comment Zac;

I know and hunt with a lot of experienced bowhunters, ( edit-to give you an idea; a couple own very successful bowshops for decades, one has the NA Slam and a few are close, a few shot ASA for years, all have over 100 animals of different species with a bow, they know their way around a bow )
guys with decades of bowhunting and tournament shooting experience and its funny how all have somehow settled on about the same arrow in the 430ish to 500ish range plus or minus. That says a lot. Bring up Ashby and you get a face palm from all of them!

Guys like Ashby and RF are just trying to inflate their celebrity Status.

…

 

[Grocerystorehater]

It was a good episode. But I can't see shooting a 950 or 1250 grain arrow (on the grizzly website) at something +40 yards away...but then again I haven't shot that setup. There must be some point where grains vs velocity have a sweet spot where they meet for the best arrow setup for a certain shot distance but that wasn't covered. Everything sounded like the more grains the better.

It was refreshing for the podcast to have an applicable hunting oriented topic. During the hunting off season the topics are all over the place.

 

[406unltd]

NEW GUYS NEED A SOLID MENTOR
ARE EXTREMES EVER OPTIMAL?

If a new guy doesn’t do his due diligence he might suffer in the woods for it. Unless the person is particularly dense they will figure out soon enough they didn’t research things very well, or listened to the loud obnoxious guy too much or whatever. Hopefully they quickly remedy the issue. But if the person doesn’t sift through the garbage on the internet, unneeded mistakes are bound to happen. Still mistakes were made early on before the web as well for numerous reasons, and corrective action taken, just like today.

I’ve learned a lot from many of you!
Opinions are great and welcomed as long as it’s not crammed down someone’s throat. No one likes that, unless your into weird shit.

The gist is:

Shoot whatever you want. You’ll find your path. Or you’ll quit.

If you like to tinker great….but
If you crowd the front end shoot a setup that has the best chance of helping you.
If you float around further back, again choose wisely.
Fire a tuned arrow from a tuned bow.
Practice your ass off and hold yourself to a high standard.

Find what works best for You.

But it’s gonna take some time, and most will make several adjustments before they settle on something and become the old dog. The old dog doesn’t refuse to learn new tricks because he can’t. He simply doesn’t need to because he is dialed with his setup. He knows it inside and out, it’s an extension of his body. He went through all or some of these phases and found what worked for him. Some people’s route takes longer than others for various reasons.

To me in the end, if you have a decent setup for your specs then ultimately accuracy is paramount.
accuracy = competence, which we achieve through wisdom. It’s earned.
Competence = a full belly, maybe a whiskey by the fire with great people after the packout, and the memories we chase.

With all that said we can all agree you won’t kill anything unless your camo matches.

 

[Bmoore]

With all that said we can all agree you won’t kill anything unless your camo matches.

Finally a non controversial stance we can get behind.
But let’s not forget that if you don’t spend over 1,000$ on the matching camo it won’t work either.

 

[HuumanCreed]

So I jumped on the Ashby train last season. Finally got over the 650 grains but it was harder and more expensive than just regular arrows and heads. I remember watching Bowmar hunt water buffalo in Africa and his arrow was over 1000. That is so over kill for the whitetails that I'm planning to hunt. But I'm curious how can you even get that weight unless you custom the parts.

 

[Billy Goat]

Finally a non controversial stance we can get behind.
But let’s not forget that if you don’t spend over 1,000$ on the matching camo it won’t work either.

Camo?



Solids are where it's at, especially if it matches my bourbon.

 

[406unltd]

Finally a non controversial stance we can get behind.
But let’s not forget that if you don’t spend over 1,000$ on the matching camo it won’t work either.

Hahaha it’s funny cause it’s true

 

[Brizzle]

I wish I shot my bow for the last two hours instead of listening to that podcast. I’ll bet practicing shooting will help me kill more animals than wasting the last 2 hours listening to someone talk about FOC…

 

[bcv]

Archery and life for that matter is about balance. You need to understand your equipment and practice with it often. With that practice and kills under your belt you'll find your sweet spot... But, If you have a relatively new compound bow, you really don't need more than 500 grains hunting most all the big game animals in The United States.