Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[jimh406]

Just a different angle, granted the military is always right, but why are we spending effort to move away from the 5.56 when a 223 is all they need?

 

[LCV]

So everybody that doesn’t share your life experiences is a troll or catfish? That sounds like solid analytical skills. Lol

Calling people stupid for having an opinion, that has some evidence to support it, and then providing no counter argument other than vague non sequiturs about life in Wyoming is not trolling?

 

[Robobiss]

Just a different angle, granted the military is always right, but why are we spending effort to move away from the 5.56 when a 223 is all they need?

From what I understand they are looking for a cartridge to better penetrate body armor, not necessarily to make it a better killer in regards to soft/unarmored targets.

That said, because of the Geneva convention the U.S. military is not allowed to use any ammunition that is designed to “expand or flatten easily inside of a human target”. Everything has to essentially be a FMJ or AP round. Pretty much ALL of the leaps and bounds in regards to projectile improvement we have made over the last 100 years is off limits to the military.

Now, 5.56 ball ammo DOES tumble and fragment at high velocities (not sure exactly how high) but gets much less effective with distance. When you are talking non-expanding projectiles, bigger generally IS better.

 

[General RE LEE]

This is the way (of the forum)… when all of the big game hunting seasons are closed.

I’m finding out more each year the stuff I get particular about in the off season
, goes out the window when it’s hunting season.

I get all wrapped up about ballistics and precision in the offseason, only to shoot a deer not more than 150 yards during hunting season.

 

[wyosam]

I have been hunting southern whitetails for decades. It really depends on the area hunting. If I am in the mountains or thick swampy areas, a magnum is never needed. A 7mm08, 308, 338Fed or 358W work as well as many others like the 30-30. If hunting farm land, a 28 Nosler or 300PRC is needed for the reach with high BC bullets. My answer…It depends.

How far are those longer shots? That 7-08 will reach out further than I generally hear anyone talk about shooting whitetails.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElPollo]

So everybody that doesn’t share your life experiences is a troll or catfish? That sounds like solid analytical skills. Lol

Where exactly did I refer to everyone as a catfish?

 

[9.3koolaid]

because of the Geneva convention the U.S. military is not allowed to use any ammunition that is designed to “expand or flatten easily inside of a human target”. Everything has to essentially be a FMJ or AP round.

If I close my eyes and have someone read me this thread I'm transported to the Sportsmans gun counter

 

[cjdewese]

Do smart car drivers poo poo the Prius?View attachment 700237

I actually saw one of these lifted with something around a 30 inch tire. I was honestly impressed, there was absolutely NO brake over angle on that thing and talking to the guy that built it he said the wheel base allows him to pretty much walk through a lot of crap.

 

[Robobiss]

If I close my eyes and have someone read me this thread I'm transported to the Sportsmans gun counter

Bahahahahaha.

That’s true though! At least that’s what we were taught in Inchon range in bootcamp.

Edit: there’s NO WAY my drill instructors lied to me /sarcasm

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s going to be harder than I thought to convince a buddy to take a 223 rack hunting with me. I asked if they had a 223 with 77 gr TMK, or a 300 mag and 200 gr Accubond to choose from for these hard shots, which would they prefer, and nobody chose the 223 :-(

Dang it all to heck.

I’ll keep trying. *chuckle*

View attachment 701145View attachment 701144

Have you personally taken a 1st shot in the butt on an elk? Yes or no?


In any case, 77gr TMK’s have no issue penetrating and breaking the spine or a femur.






Exit side-

 

[HighUintas]

I'm going to go back to bow hunting now

 

[Robobiss]

I'm going to go back to bow hunting now

That’s no better, instead we just fight about fixed vs mechanical, single vs multi-pin, and heavy vs light arrows. All the same shit

 

[Thegman]

I actually saw one of these lifted with something around a 30 inch tire. I was honestly impressed, there was absolutely NO brake over angle on that thing and talking to the guy that built it he said the wheel base allows him to pretty much walk through a lot of crap.

I was told by a guy in Switzerland that when "Smart" cars first came out, they would sometimes flip over backwards when starting too fast on a steep hill. They had to design some sort of limiter in order to address that issue.

Now we're standing at the O'Reilly counter...

 

[Thegman]

I'm going to go back to bow hunting now

Yeah, this thread somehow devolved into the (unrevealed) expert secrets of ass shooting...

That said, the first buck I ever shot with a bow was an ass shot. Had been wounded by another hunter and that's what I had at a hobbling away buck when I found him. I got lucky and hit his femoral artery.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Have you ever shot a quiche in the ass??

(Is "a quiche" correct?) ....I always call it "quee-chee" to annoy my daughters....

No… but I have eaten the entire butt end of a quiche. I generally find it unnecessary to shoot them, as they are slow and docile. Don’t shoot em, just sneak up behind them, grab and eat.

 

[HighUintas]

That’s no better, instead we just fight about fixed vs mechanical, single vs multi-pin, and heavy vs light arrows. All the same shit

True, but the threads seem to be less prevalent and less likely to drag on to 20+ pages of BS, at least from what I've seen. I pretty much ignore what is new and hot with archery anyway. I've shot fixed heads and plain Jane gold tip hunter xts my entire life and don't plan on changing because I know the ins/outs and it works for me. My biggest regret is selling my Mathews LX in favor of a vxr. It's nowhere near as accurate in my hands as that old LX

 

[30338]

As a young kid I started out with a 7mm Remington. Then a 7mmSTW. Then a 338 win mag. Then a 340 weatherby. Then a 375 Weatherby. Then a 30-06. Then a 6.5-06. Then a 6.5x47. Kind of settled on the 6.5x47, 6.5-284 and 6x45 for hunting stuff these days.

It was a fun road to go down, but if I had just started with a 6.5 creedmoor or a 30-06 I'd have lacked for nothing. Scopes that dial correctly have greatly enhanced my long range performance far more than more horsepower did.

 

[EastHumboldt]

My only comment about the masculinity of any caliber is this. If your masculinity depends on the gun you shoot and the vehicle you drive… you’re pretty insecure about it in the first place.

Real masculinity is loyalty and service …. being a loving and present father and husband, bringing home the bacon ( or tofu) , helping friends and family, sticking up for those who need your help, meeting your obligations, doing the hard work of being a decent human being.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

It's a stretch when the argument has to shift all the way to Texas heart shots and spine shots to try and justify your "side". Also grand assumptions about the results of the aforementioned shots because a projectile might be "larger" being the basis for your conclusion.

Just wow.

 

[TaperPin]

Thanks for answering the question.

I noticed you mention about teaching this particular shot (facing directly away). Do you have a source for targets? Maybe whitetail as well. Thanks.

I’ve never seen a pelvis target, but the most helpful practice seems to be spent visualizing what’s going on around the pelvis. The point we’re aiming for is as far forward as the visible bumps of the hips. We call it aiming for the base of the tail, but it’s a little farther forward than that. Height down from the hairline is the most important - that’s where “base of the tail” is about right. If the spine is going directly away from you, the target is little more than a tennis ball. If the animal is going uphill slightly, or you’re a little above, there is more spine to hit if the bullet goes a little high.

When an animal is on the ground a hands-on anatomy lesson is the best teacher.

Pretty soon you’ll pick out anatomy drawings that aren’t quite right - it seem somewhat common for illustrators to assume the spine is straight as an arrow or bowed like a hunchback. Lol