Losing *OUR* public lands?

[StuckInTheEast]

They have to pay a 5% commission to the respective states. The estimates I've seen are this raises more like 10 billion in total revenue.

Thats devil in the details. ..none of the BS they are feeding us about reasons for selling the land make much of any sense financially.

They know what they have to do to cut the deficit down, but NO ONE is gonna like that...because it will slash entitlement programs that we've all been paying into and falsely thinking we will get that money back some day...and their biggest fear is not getting re-elected, nevermind what's actually in the people's best interest.

Sacrificing public lands to pay peanuts on the deficit that'll be wiped out by a few months interest on that dept is akin to pawning a priceless family heirloom for beer money...makes no sense and will leave you wishing you'd never done it in very short order.

 

[Poser]

Thats devil in the details. ..none of the BS they are feeding us about reasons for selling the land make much of any sense financially.

They know what they have to do to cut the deficit down, but NO ONE is gonna like that...because it will slash entitlement programs that we've all been paying into and falsely thinking we will get that money back some day...and their biggest fear is not getting re-elected, nevermind what's actually in the people's best interest.

Sacrificing public lands to pay peanuts on the deficit that'll be wiped out by a few months interest on that dept is akin to pawning a priceless family heirloom for beer money...makes no sense and will leave you wishing you'd never done it in very short order.

Agreed. The Golden Calf is defense spending, but we could make this real easy and just admit that the "Golden Dome" is concept that is entirely impractical with current technology. The concept would have to add a network of 16,000 NEW low orbit satellites just to intercept 10 ICBMS. Our current interceptor program has enough missiles and the success rate to intercept 10 ICBMS. No country is going to launch a small number of nukes at the US and if a country launches a large number of nukes, everyone on the planet is going to be dead within days or weeks anyway. No way around that as the official US policy is to get all 300 Minutemen ICBMS off the ground in a "use it or lose it" response to inbound ICBMS. Our minimum response alone is a planet killer plus what every other country launches. and then there's the bombers and the boomer subs, each of which are planet killers unto themselves. Nuclear war: everybody dies. No sense in spending untold billions to keep some amount of Americans alive for another 45 minutes. That's a dark, bleak reality, but it is the reality of the nuclear age.
We already have a "Golden Dome" and its called Mutually Assured Destruction.

Cancel the 25b slated to be spent on R and D for this project this year alone. Boom: There's your absolute best case scenario public land sale money. Try at all costs to avoid nuclear war or earth is a dead planet and none of this matters anyway.

 

[EP357]

Write or call your senators!

 

[Tilzbow]

They have to pay a 5% commission to the respective states. The estimates I've seen are this raises more like 10 billion in total revenue.

Yeah, I forgot that in my calculations and used 100%. The selling agency, BLM or NFS, also gets 5% plus the bill allocates several million dollars for selling expenses for each agency so take even more off the remaining 90% and you’re left with even less of a deficit reduction than .4% for $50,000 per acre. Point is this will do nothing to reduce the deficit. Gotta reduce spending.

 

[Wheels]

Don't forget that we are talking about a bunch of trust fund babies that never had to balance a check book in their life. You think they can control their spending?
This is nothing but an attempted land grab for the robber barons.

 

[tpicou]

Agreed. The Golden Calf is defense spending, but we could make this real easy and just admit that the "Golden Dome" is concept that is entirely impractical with current technology. The concept would have to add a network of 16,000 NEW low orbit satellites just to intercept 10 ICBMS. Our current interceptor program has enough missiles and the success rate to intercept 10 ICBMS. No country is going to launch a small number of nukes at the US and if a country launches a large number of nukes, everyone on the planet is going to be dead within days or weeks anyway. No way around that as the official US policy is to get all 300 Minutemen ICBMS off the ground in a "use it or lose it" response to inbound ICBMS. Our minimum response alone is a planet killer plus what every other country launches. and then there's the bombers and the boomer subs, each of which are planet killers unto themselves. Nuclear war: everybody dies. No sense in spending untold billions to keep some amount of Americans alive for another 45 minutes. That's a dark, bleak reality, but it is the reality of the nuclear age.
We already have a "Golden Dome" and its called Mutually Assured Destruction.

Cancel the 25b slated to be spent on R and D for this project this year alone. Boom: There's your absolute best case scenario public land sale money. Try at all costs to avoid nuclear war or earth is a dead planet and none of this matters anyway.

Haha yep. “We’re going to pay down the debt by selling public lands and adding $150bn to the defense budget”

A tale as old as time

 

[KClem53]

View attachment 895092
View attachment 895094
The Senate drafted the budget-reconciliation bill and it would require the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service to sell 0.5 to 0.75 percent of their land, roughly 2.2 to 3.3 million acres in eleven western states.

The draft targets federal land in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming.

This skips the normal NEPA public-comment process . Those acres belong to every American; they support hunting, fishing, camping, wildlife habitat, and general outdoor-recreation. Once in private hands, they can be fenced, paved, or flipped for profit, and that shared value is gone forever .

The Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee votes the week of June 24, and the full Senate could vote before the July 4 recess with only 51 votes needed to pass.

***If you care at all about public lands, and do not want any amount sold off please take 5 minutes and contact the ENR committee, and then your states representatives.***

Committee roster and email links: https://www.energy.senate.gov/members

This is Chairman Mike Lee’s of Utah's ENR reconciliation draft. Call the committee desk at 202-224-4971 or use each member’s email form on that page and ask them to remove the public land-sale section.

Email or call your two state senators: https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm

Capitol switchboard is 202-224-3121 which connects you by phone. Use the contact forms at the link above if you prefer email.

Write a message expressing why every acre of your public lands are important to you, or at the very least use the following:

“I am a constituent who values public land. Please vote no on any bill that sells or privatizes BLM or Forest Service acres.”

Every call and short email is logged, and a strong early push can persuade key senators to pull this provision before our public acres vanish behind No Trespassing signs.

If you contact them (please do), comment back here to keep this post going. Takes 5 minutes!

More information:
https://www.wilderness.org/articles...on-acres-public-lands-eligible-sale-senr-bill

Thank you Messageed mine!

 

[7millie]

Sent from Nevada. My biggest concern is once they get an inch they’ll want a mile.

 

[Runolfson]

Hit down all you want, but it's a growing perception that BECOMING A reality. I hear it all the time, if someone is in a low public land state and can't afford to hunt out of state or even put in for out of states dismal draw odds ANYMORE and feel persecuted for being a NR... Do you think they are writing their congressman? No they aren't. They arent driving 10-20hrs just to go hiking in NF,... They drive to hunt

That is a really selfish and short sited way to look at this issue. So, if you can't get what you want f- all the future generations that could enjoy these lands? These lands are invaluable. There is no amount of money that they should be sold for.

I often drive 10+ hours to camp/fish/hike/ enjoy public land. If you want to hunt like a resident then move to that state. Stop hating the opportunity that others have and instead start asking how do I create these opportunities for myself.

 

[cuerro viejo]

That is a really selfish and short sited way to look at this issue. So, if you can't get what you want f- all the future generations that could enjoy these lands? These lands are invaluable. There is no amount of money that they should be sold for.

I often drive 10+ hours to camp/fish/hike/ enjoy public land. If you want to hunt like a resident then move to that state. Stop hating the opportunity that others have and instead start asking how do I create these opportunities for myself.

lol that’s funny, I’ve been told I’m selfish for hunting multiple states every year and killing multiple elk and deer, now I’m selfish for telling the truth, keep telling yourself there is ZERO validity to what I said.

I hunt 3-4 states a year. I’m the NR that gets a ton of hate on this Site because I can afford multiple tags and hunts a year.

I absolutely don’t want public land sold, but you can go back to my post history now for 5 years. Every time residents slam NR and push for NR opportunity cuts and price hikes, I post you are losing Hunting support By NR every time, when those NR stop hunting out west, their kids stop hunting west, and their kids. When they stop hunting, their appetite to fight for public land diminishes, as does thier appetite to fight anti hunting agendas in those state…. Guess what those same people that advocated for 95/5 or even no opportunity are ones begging for support, and now calling NR selfish,

There has been a lot of NR’s priced out of western hunting, and they are rightly so bitter. Again they primarily recreate in those lands for hunting, if they can’t hunt, they aren’t going, if they don’t go they don’t care enough to support.

Let’s think about recent events did the Apple City riots/ fire bother you? No you could careless you don’t live there or visit

 

[Bighorse]

Let’s talk about ATVing, personal use timber harvest, places to shoot, small scale mineral extraction, mushroom hunting, dog training, and trail hiking

Pretty much any fresh breath and sense of freedom we enjoy as regular workin stiff Americans hinges on public lands.

Fight this gentlemen. East coast/west coast
We’re all in this and dolling out our lands because the spending got out of hand.

I hate the thought of a $500k bomb representing a chunk of forest blowing outa existence with each trigger pull while my social security depletes. Add depleting educational opportunities and reduced healthcare access.

Take your kids hunting…..or just sit under a tree on a ridgeline and discuss the grandeur. This is horse shit cuz I know mining and timber harvest is really on the horizon.

 

[ColoradoV]

Crazy what folks instantly give up so Billionaires and multi millionaires don’t have to pay taxes…. Is that sacrifice worth it to you??

Good thing is this idea is universally seen as a bad idea by ALL that use public lands and hunters are a very small slice of that pie. Nr hunters are a slice so small let’s face is are basically irrelevant in the conversation. Or this will not be decided by a few nr buthurt about ever increasing demand for licenses…

This Mike Lee poison pill is seen for what it is by most on both sides of the isle and if this passes as written will have real consequences for the elected officials who will “bend the knee” before doing the right thing…..

For what its worth Hick came through our restaurant recently and talking to him face to face he is working hard against this asinine Mike Lee proposal…

Good to see there are still well at least a couple stand up guys in the senate…

 

[JeffRaines]

A couple of thoughts

I'm glad the better majority of us realize what this really is. They're all talking out of both sides of their mouths, on one side "BUDGET DEFICIT" "AFFORDABLE HOUSING" meanwhile out the other side is "BUDGET INCREASE". It doesn't make any sense no matter how you slice it. Want to decrease the deficit? Its easy. Decrease spending. Increase taxes. No one(including myself) wants the latter so the former sounds good to me.

I'm not surprised politicians came up with this proposal. A great majority if not all of them haven't ever actually worked a day in their life... and by work I mean actual work, not pushing papers. Why does this matter? They've always had some kind of connection and wealth. Public lands dont mean squat to those types because if they want to hunt or fish they have someone to call up who will let them trespass, either for a hefty fee that they can afford or just for free. How many of us have that kind of pull? How many can call up Mr. Turner and ask him if he'll let them hunt for a few days on his land? Most of us are "stuck" hunting public because it's what we can afford.

Finally, for those of you who are on the fence or justify it with "but right now its only a small percentage of land that will be sold, its not that big of a deal. It's for our own good to decrease the deficit" - how would you feel about an administration trying to ban AR15s? They say "It's only AR15s. It's for our own good. We won't come after the other guns, we promise."

Once this land is gone, it's gone... it's a slippery slope, and you can bet if it's successful the next budget proposal will include some more land sales.

 

[chanson_roland]

Agreed. The Golden Calf is defense spending, but we could make this real easy and just admit that the "Golden Dome" is concept that is entirely impractical with current technology. The concept would have to add a network of 16,000 NEW low orbit satellites just to intercept 10 ICBMS. Our current interceptor program has enough missiles and the success rate to intercept 10 ICBMS. No country is going to launch a small number of nukes at the US and if a country launches a large number of nukes, everyone on the planet is going to be dead within days or weeks anyway. No way around that as the official US policy is to get all 300 Minutemen ICBMS off the ground in a "use it or lose it" response to inbound ICBMS. Our minimum response alone is a planet killer plus what every other country launches. and then there's the bombers and the boomer subs, each of which are planet killers unto themselves. Nuclear war: everybody dies. No sense in spending untold billions to keep some amount of Americans alive for another 45 minutes. That's a dark, bleak reality, but it is the reality of the nuclear age.
We already have a "Golden Dome" and its called Mutually Assured Destruction.

Cancel the 25b slated to be spent on R and D for this project this year alone. Boom: There's your absolute best case scenario public land sale money. Try at all costs to avoid nuclear war or earth is a dead planet and none of this matters anyway.

This. No one wants to do the real work, which is cutting the DOD budget. We now have a new generation of Peter Thiel and A16z-backed companies trying to feed at the same trough (Anduril, Palantir) that Eisenhower warned us about generations ago. We're going to see all sorts of bending backwards to avoid doing the one obvious thing that reduces our fiscal crisis, which is reducing defense spending.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Crazy what folks instantly give up so Billionaires and multi millionaires don’t have to pay taxes…. Is that sacrifice worth it to you??

Good thing is this idea is universally seen as a bad idea by ALL that use public lands and hunters are a very small slice of that pie. Nr hunters are a slice so small let’s face is are basically irrelevant in the conversation. Or this will not be decided by a few nr buthurt about ever increasing demand for licenses…

This Mike Lee poison pill is seen for what it is by most on both sides of the isle and if this passes as written will have real consequences for the elected officials who will “bend the knee” before doing the right thing…..

For what its worth Hick came through our restaurant recently and talking to him face to face he is working hard against this asinine Mike Lee proposal…

Good to see there are still well at least a couple stand up guys in the senate…

Texas has 1 million hunters, Pennsylvania just below that.

Combined all Idaho, MT, WY and Co = < then a million… That’s two states that probably = the total amount of ALL western license numbers

you/we need their support… how many US house members does your state have…….Texas has 38

 

[ColoradoV]

Texas has 1 million hunters, Pennsylvania just below that.

Combined all Idaho, MT, WY and Co = < then a million… That’s two states that probably = the total amount of ALL western license numbers

you/we need their support… how many US house members does your state have…….Texas has 38

Last year there were 65 million skier visits alone..

Another 64 million were non consumptive hiking/backpacking users of this land..

Fishing you ask another 50 million..

Mountains biking is another 34 million..

Off roading? You got it another 26 million..

I could go on but you should get the picture…

Texas house reps are climbing over each other to “bend the knee” as fast as possible to prove they are aligned w the orange man’s travesty of a bill..

Like I said amazing what folks will put up w so billionaires don’t have to pay taxes…

 

[cuerro viejo]

Last year there were 65 million skier visits alone..

Another 64 million were non consumptive hiking/backpacking users of this land..

Fishing you ask another 50 million..

Mountains biking is another 34 million..

Off roading? You got it another 26 million..

I could go on but you should get the picture…

Texas house reps are climbing over each other to “bend the knee” as fast as possible to prove they are aligned w the orange man’s travesty of a bill..

Like I said amazing what folks will put up w so billionaires don’t have to pay taxes…

they wouldn’t be bending a knee if a million hunters where banging on their door, that’s my point, TX can make or break this vote. But the hell with them you don’t want them hunting in CO anyway… good luck TX and Penn are 10% of house vote and large chunk of the Red.

You have exact same tax advantages they do. But if you want to be taxed 30% of your home value and retirement portfolio knock yourself out, I prefer to just cut all entitlements and shrink overall government by 30%.

increase tax free retirement investing, is a great start.

 

[Flyjunky]

The Government can pay off the National debt by cutting back on spending. There’s billions going out the door everyday to things that have nothing to do with basic federal government function.

That was already tried but too many were crying their job, pet project, program, etc was going away.

At some point soon people are really going to have to decide what is absolutely the most important because we can’t continue down this debt path or there will be no future for this country.

Oh, btw, I wish there was outrage against proposed guns laws on this site like there is about public lands…interesting.

 

[Poser]

Oh, btw, I wish there was outrage against proposed guns laws on this site like there is about public lands…interesting.

Laws change. They can be challenged in court. They can be done and undone. There is lobbyists infrastructure, highly organized and extremely influential gun rights organizations: systems, methods and influence that do much of the work. If you've been alive for any amount of time, you've seen policy come and go and shift dramatically. There's even an amendment in the constitution to address it. The alarm has been sounded numerous times and its almost always ongoing.

The defense of public lands is, by comparison, basically grassroots. And, if the land is sold, there's no getting it back. It has come down to this one moment in time where it be sold or it can be stopped. Of course people are going to be passionate about it.

 

[StuckInTheEast]

That was already tried but too many were crying their job, pet project, program, etc was going away.

At some point soon people are really going to have to decide what is absolutely the most important because we can’t continue down this debt path or there will be no future for this country.

Oh, btw, I wish there was outrage against proposed guns laws on this site like there is about public lands…interesting.

It was tried in the most broad, half-assed and poorly thought out and orchestrated way possible.
Federal jobs aren't gonna make a dent in the deficit. Sure there was/is fat to trim there but where the big cuts are going to have to come is defense, Medicare, social security... If your worried about Social Security or Medicare going into retirement and your retirement funds are in the millions your gonna have to suck it up and spend your own money or work a bit longer unfortunately. Those programs weren't intended or designed for the broad use that they've since been applied to.

Thats all a whole different conversation for a different place.
It seems most here are in consensus that selling public lands for pretty much any reason is a bad idea and won't do anything the crooked dim witts in DC are telling us it will.
We just have to be loud enough to be heard.