Looking for good cartridge and budget rifle for 14 y/o

[HappyHuntr]

Many of my friends (when they were kids) hunted with a 308 win for deer and elk with a 308 win. The 270 Win with 130 gr bullets can be manageable. 6.5 PRC is higher velocity than the 6.5 CM so the 6.5 CM would be a better option than it right now. But again the then 6.5 CM which would kick less than the 308 win, 270, or the 6.5 PRC, would stil kick more than the reduced recoil ammo I posted in 30-06. That ammo sends a 125gr SST bullet and 2700 fps at the muzzle. And still would kill deer out to 300 yards. Do you own any other rifles?

223 black rain AR is my other rifle. My buddy who gave me the /06 has a 300WM and duck hunting buddy of mine has a 243 savage axis his kid used which maybe i could try to let them get him to shoot there guns.

 

[HappyHuntr]

would the 223 Ar be a good trainer like said earlier.

 

[xsn10s]

223 black rain AR is my other rifle. My buddy who gave me the /06 has a 300WM and duck hunting buddy of mine has a 243 savage axis his kid used which maybe i could try to let them get him to shoot there guns.

There are many options. You could get a Witt clamp on muzzle brake and that would reduce recoil. You could sell the rifle and get a Ruger American, Savage or some used rifle chambered in a smaller cartridge. But at $400-$450 range I don't think the quality of rifle is going to match what you have right now. I'd see if you could get your son to shoot that .243. And get him dry firing that Win 670. Most of the time getting a person used to holding any given firearm will go a long ways to helping dealing with recoil.

 

[xsn10s]

would the 223 Ar be a good trainer like said earlier.

A bolt would be better but shooting the AR won't hurt. Certainly better than nothing.

 

[LongWayAround]

Thanks man i will look into light recoil loads for 30/06. I think he does think it will kick him hard so i wonder if psychologically that might hurt him. I having feeling he would be max confidence behind a 243. I would like something maybe bigger than 243 though because you never know when that long shot comes up and you need some KE. What about 308, 270, or 6.5 prc?

Speaking of longshots. I used the published data from Hornady and their ballistic calculator.

The above referenced reduced recoil loads for 30-06 125gr SST are moving 1645fps at 400yd and falling 30" with a 200yd zero. Zero at 100 makes the fall 39"

An 87gr SST from a .243 is moving 1960fps and has fallen 24" at 400yd. Zero at 100 falls 31".

An 129gr SST from a 6.5 Creedmoor is moving 2222fps and falling 20" at 400yd. Zero at 100 makes the fall 26".

I'm also not sure how @xsn10s is comparing the recoil. I can't find the charge weights from Hornady but... Hogdon lists a starting powder charge of about 50gr at that bullet weight for 30-06. The maximum charge for a 6.5 CM is in the low 40gr range. Pushing a same weight bullet with more powder. Edited to say, from what I can find, the recoil is probably very similar.

 

[LongWayAround]

LOL ok well I don't flinch and like I said the reduced recoil loads would recoil less than the 6.5 CM. One guy on midwayusa reviews uses it for his girls and they kill whitetails with it. But whatever lol.

"Some guy on Midway" sounds reputable.

 

[xsn10s]

There is certainly nothing wrong in selling your 670 to use the money to purchase say a 243 win, 6mm CM or 6.5 CM. I just see the need given you're hunting 0-300 yards and the reduced recoil ammo will certainly take game at those distances.

 

[Happy Antelope]

7mm-08

 

[xsn10s]

Screen shot from JBM. I don't see any issue.

 

[xsn10s]

I'm also not sure how @xsn10s is comparing the recoil. I can't find the charge weights from Hornady but... Hogdon lists a starting powder charge of about 50gr at that bullet weight for 30-06. The maximum charge for a 6.5 CM is in the low 40gr range. Pushing a same weight bullet with more powder.

If I was going to develop a handload for reduced recoil I'd use Hodgon's 60% reduced charge using H4895.

 

[xsn10s]

Thanks man i will look into light recoil loads for 30/06. I think he does think it will kick him hard so i wonder if psychologically that might hurt him. I having feeling he would be max confidence behind a 243. I would like something maybe bigger than 243 though because you never know when that long shot comes up and you need some KE. What about 308, 270, or 6.5 prc?

If you wanted something for longer shots then the standard 30-06 would work depending on the distance and load. I was going to bump up from 200 gr to 208gr-215gr. But then I went to a 7mm RM with 180 gr ELDM. My handloads are fairly light at only 2800 fps. But I'm just breaking in my barrel right now. Even at those lower velocities it should take elk out to 700 yards.

 

[HappyHuntr]

If you wanted something for longer shots then the standard 30-06 would work depending on the distance and load. I was going to bump up from 200 gr to 208gr-215gr. But then I went to a 7mm RM with 180 gr ELDM. My handloads are fairly light at only 2800 fps. But I'm just breaking in my barrel right now. Even at those lower velocities it should take elk out to 700 yards.

700 yards with the 7RM?

 

[xsn10s]

7mm-08

A 7-08 would be great too. Pharm has killed a lot of elk with that round.

 

[xsn10s]

700 yards with the 7RM?

That's why I bought my 7mm RM. My go to before that was my 30-06. But that was when a 400 yard shot would be the longest I'd need to take in Central Oregon. I live in Eastern Oregon now and in some spot 600-700 yards might be as close as I can get. Now some on here state how the 30-06 kicks like a mule. And that can be the case if the buttpad is poor and the stock shape/ fitment doesn't match the shooter. I've shot standard hunting rifles in 338 RUM and they certainly kicked, but weren't painful. And I've shot some painful 30-06 rifles. My 30-06 I installed a SIM recoil pad because Winchester likes to put on thin, hard rubber buttpads. Recoil wasn't an issue after that.

 

[HappyHuntr]

A 7-08 would be great too. Pharm has killed a lot of elk with that round.

I love the 7-08 idea. More umph than the 243, lower recoil than 308, 270, 0r 6.5prc, and it's not a gaymoor haha.

 

[xsn10s]

I love the 7-08 idea. More umph than the 243, lower recoil than 308, 270, 0r 6.5prc, and it's not a gaymoor haha.

You could have that Win 670 rebarreled to 7-08 1-8" twist. Shoot 120gr bullets all the way up to 180 gr. Although Pharm favored 140-150gr bullets if I remembered correctly. Look up Pharmseller's posts.

 

[KenLee]

This is what i was wondering. He shoots an old 80’s 870 wing master with virtually no butt pad. How does that compare to 30/06 recoil?

Kid shooting a 12 ga Shotgun feels like getting lightly slapped. Kid messing up on grip or head placement with a 30-06 can result in stitches at the ER.

 

[KenLee]

I love the 7-08 idea. More umph than the 243, lower recoil than 308, 270, 0r 6.5prc, and it's not a gaymoor haha.

120 gr ttsx or 120gr nbt are light recoil and stone cold killers.
Those are my go tos for kids over 80 pounds...after they get used to lighter calibers

 

[6mm Remington]

Ruger American's are about the ball park you are looking for and seem to shoot very well. A friend has one in the 6.5 ManBun (Creedmoor) that shoots very well and doesn't kick bad at all.

The 6mm Remington is a great cartridge but you will most likely have to reload for it. Great cartridge for deer and antelope. Will kill an elk handily enough also. Both my son and I have taken elk with the 6mm Remington. Shoots very accurately, flat shooting, and doesn't recoil much. Have to look for a used rifle in it also bit that's not a bad thing.

The Ruger American in a 7mm-08 or 243 Winchester would be a good choice also.

I started hunting big-game at 12 with a Remington Model 600 Centennial Model in 6mm Remington. It belongs to my son and he killed his first antelope with that rifle. Still shoots very well. He also has a Ruger MKII in 6mm Remington. He's taken several deer and antelope, and one large cow elk with that rifle.

 

[HappyHuntr]

You could have that Win 670 rebarreled to 7-08 1-8" twist. Shoot 120gr bullets all the way up to 180 gr. Although Pharm favored 140-150gr bullets if I remembered correctly. Look up Pharmseller's posts.

Will look up Pharmseller's posts.