Looking for advice on rifle inaccuracy

[hikehuntrescue]

Hey folks!

I need some advice on my 7mm-08 Savage 16 Lightweight Hunter. I've had the gun for 5 years now, and it's very reliably outperformed me that whole time. It has typically loved the Nosler non-lead 140gr factory loads, and I can typically shoot 1-1.5 MOA at 100yds (and I figure I'm mostly to blame for it being north of 1 MOA).

Anyway, after a crazy high country mule deer hunt involving a lot of sliding around on sketchy terrain and a flat miss from 350y on a beautiful buck, I went to the range and my POI was 4-5 MOA high and 2-3 MOA right -- I assume I hit my scope on a rock or something harder than I realized.

The scope (Nikon Prostaff 4 2.5-10x40) doesn't seem to have moved in the rings, doesn't have any noticable damage on the outside, and seems to be holding the new zero just fine through about 20rds doing a 10 MOA square tracking drill.

However, all through the tracking drill I was shooting ~4 MOA with my cheap russian ammo that usually shoots closer to 2 MOA, and when I checked final zero after the tracking drill with my Nosler hunting rounds, the three rounds were along a 3" vertical line roughly averaged to the correct zero.

Normally, I would just check my stock screws, scope mounts, clean the bore, etc and shoot between each idea to figure out the problem, but I am now extremely low on ammo and (unsurprisingly) unable to buy factory ammo at the moment. I have just enough hunting ammo (7 rds, to be exact) to keep me chasing bear and elk, but not enough to diagnose rifle accuracy problems.

So I'm hoping to get some expert intuition on this -- what would you suspect is causing this problem?

Thanks!

 

[Northpark]

Well you don’t have enough ammo to actually diagnose the problem. Best you can do is stay where your at and keep shots close. You can’t even take the scope off and torque the bases (loose bases is my first guess) or anything because then you would need to re zero which you don’t have enough ammo for. You should probably go order some ammo online. If you’re not picky and your persistent you should be able to find some online in the next week.

 

[Rifles And More]

My guess would be scope if ammo that was good suddenly starts shotgunning.

You are in a pickle with 7 rounds - need to find more. I have 'zeroed' a good scope with two rounds, but that was a solid tracking product.

 

[Wrench]

You're using one of the least reliable scopes ever sold....that is where I would look.

 

[(NOP)]

I understand people have budgets but quality gear makes all the difference. It's a cheap rifle with a cheap scope and since you didn't mention the name of the rings or the base I'm sure they are cheap too. No offense intended.

My 308 is a "budget" rifle but I used quality components. Tikka t3, egw base, hawkins rings, steiner scope I got on sale for $400, (usually 800) bell and carlson stock that I bedded self. It's never been off more then 1 inch at 100 that includes complete disassembly.

The action and barrel are probably fine. The stock, base, rings, and scope are possible weak links.

Wish you luck.

 

[hikehuntrescue]

Funny, when my wife gave it to me for Christmas I was excited to get the nicest rifle and scope I'd ever owned.
The scope mount is a DNZ Game Reaper, for what it's worth.

 

[TxxAgg]

I bet it's the scope. The gun and rings sound fine.

 

[(NOP)]

I like savage rifles, or i should say barrels and actions. The stocks are a weak link. That's a really decent mount. I like 1 piece designs. If everything is torqued and installed in the stock properly it has to be the scope.

I had a similar problem years ago with a Ruger M77 and Nikon Buck Master. The tube was undersized and slipped in the rings and the scope adjustment was 1/2 moa instead of 1/4. I was pulling may hair out trying to get it ready the night before the season. All that and once I started shooting competition, I learned what it takes to have a gun that performs 100% and even then I've seen $8000 rifles fail.

 

[Rrush]

I understand people have budgets but quality gear makes all the difference. It's a cheap rifle with a cheap scope and since you didn't mention the name of the rings or the base I'm sure they are cheap too. No offense intended.

My 308 is a "budget" rifle but I used quality components. Tikka t3, egw base, hawkins rings, steiner scope I got on sale for $400, (usually 800) bell and carlson stock that I bedded self. It's never been off more then 1 inch at 100 that includes complete disassembly.

The action and barrel are probably fine. The stock, base, rings, and scope are possible weak links.

Wish you luck.

There’s definitely a better way to express this opinion.

OP—Take the entire system down. Use a torque wrench and get everything tight to specs and loctite where required to put it all back together. If it’s still an issue do same with some different glass if available. Key is to trouble shoot one thing at a time.

 

[Wrench]

When a rifle starts throwing pills more than 2moa out of it's normal routine, something is broken.

It's rare for a rifle to up and break. If you were messing with it, we'd troubleshoot through it....but to up and break, I go straight to optics. Add in a light rifle and a scope famous for not holding zero and it gets even more suspicious of the scope or mount.....your mount choice does not have a history of failure.

 

[Wrench]

Sounds more like an erector tube not staying put. Common nikon problem.....even on their best scopes.

 

[manitou1]

Did you zero at low elevation and hunt at high elevation? Air density can make a 2-3" difference.
Didn't read a the posts... may have been mentioned.

 

[Flyjunky]

Did you zero at low elevation and hunt at high elevation? Air density can make a 2-3" difference.
Didn't read a the posts... may have been mentioned.

Not unless there is a 20,000' difference. A 140gr accubond only changes from 1.44" @ 100 yards to 1.55" going from 100' asl to 10,000 asl, all else being equal.

 

[grappling_hook]

Probably the scope, but it can't hurt to check the crown on the muzzle to see if you dented it on a rock. If not a full-on dent, do the q-tip test to see if there is a burr. Again, may not be the issue, but it takes less than a minute to check and doesn't cost you any ammo.

Speaking of easy-to-check items that require no ammo, might as well check to make sure your action screws haven't loosened. Also check to see if any debris (especially rocks) are pinned between the barrel and the fore stock that could be pushing your barrel to one side.

 

[Fatcamp]

Game Reaper is fine. Scope not so much.

 

[JohnJohnson]

My thoughts usually go to the scope and its connections to the rifle via the rings/base.

 

[hikehuntrescue]

Sounds more like an erector tube not staying put. Common nikon problem.....even on their best scopes.

I did some quick reading, as I wasn't familiar enough with scope engineering to even know what an erector tube was...

This makes sense to me. I've been wracking my brain trying to understand how the scope could be broken but still holding zero through a tracking drill, but if the adjustments are holding their position but the erector spring is slightly out of place or the tube is otherwise not returning to the exact same position, it could explain the spread.

As soon as I'm able to secure a little more ammo (as of now I was able to order all the reloading supplies I needed online, so as long as everything arrives, I should be able to load up 50 rds next week) I will disassemble and check torque throughout. FWIW, all screws were torqued to spec with a torque wrench and the scope mount screws were secured with loctite blue when I put it together initially.

Thanks all.

 

[hikehuntrescue]

OP—Take the entire system down. Use a torque wrench and get everything tight to specs and loctite where required to put it all back together. If it’s still an issue do same with some different glass if available. Key is to trouble shoot one thing at a time.

I'm a bit embarrassed that I didn't check this earlier, but yesterday I found my front action screw to be rattling itself out. The rear screw was still in place but not up to torque spec.

I took the stock off, wiped everything down, cleaned up the threads, loctite blue, reassembled and torqued to 35 in-lbs.

I'm still skeptical of my scope, but at least I know my stock is back in place properly. I checked the torque on my scope rings and they were on spec. I can't get to the screws that secure the mount to the action without removing the scope, so that will have to wait until I secure more ammo.

 

[(NOP)]

Glad you found the problem. Be sure to put pressure on the recoil lug to the stock while tightening it down. An action slipping in the stock can make you scratch your head even when torqued to spec. I had to learn that lesson the hard way.

 

[manitou1]

How Altitude Changes Trajectory — Ron Spomer Outdoors

Altitude changes trajectory of bullets by altering air density, thus increasing or decreasing drag. But so does temperature, and the two are intertwined.

www.ronspomeroutdoors.com