Long Range Rifle Questions

[BurtonGus]

Hello,
I am wanting to stretch my hunting capabilities and I’m looking at building or buying a rifle set up for long range rifle hunting. My longest shot an animal to date is an elk at 265 yards and all the other deer and elk have only been at 65-150 yards. I’ve only hunted with a rifle with typical straight comb stock, sporter barrel, and a scope with a BDC reticle. This setup hasn’t failed me yet but, I want to stretch my range.
I’m looking for guidance on the value of getting a rifle setup for long range hunting. An illustration of my questioning is shown in the rifles I’m hung up on. I like the Seekins Havak PH2 in .300 win mag and the Tikka Roughtec. Is the setup of the Seekins worth the extra money? Or can I reliably shoot out to 500 years consistently with the Tikka. And I know that’s a very simplified question. I know some guys can shoot the wings off a fly with a Red Ryder at 1000 yards but that’s not me. I don’t want to spend money just to spend money. And I don’t want to get caught chasing trends.

So those of you who hunt at 500+ yards; what are the components of the rifle that help you reliably shoot far?

I am not new to hunting. I will be practicing with whatever setup I get. I know you have to pay for quality products. And I know there are lots of variables not mentioned in my question.

 

[lintond]

A good quality repeatable scope is very important. Lots of info on MIL vs MOA and FFP vs SFP.

Tikka is a great rifle but can be limited in mag length for a 300 WM.


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[thinhorn_AK]

The Seekins rifles are very nice, my long range setup is a Seekins havak element 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[Alex Genereux]

I would highly consider a different cartridge.. refer to the various 6mm, 6.5mm, 223 threads. Past 500 yards wind is the #1 issue that causes people to miss. Only way to over come that challenge is volume of fire and calling wind, which is why I said I would suggest a different cartridge. After you have a rifle you can shoot a lot next is getting a reliable scope refer to the scope eval forms. After that it would be making sure the stock fits you well. I have shot tikka since 2006 and I really do like them I am a lefty. Aftermarket support is great as well.

 

[blbennett1288]

A good repeatable scope with a usable reticle at that distance.

Tikka, Bergaras, and Seekins come to mind as good quality rifles.

A kestrel and magnetospeed would be handy for doping out your rifle.

 

[Tmac]

The lighter rifles can be more challenging to shoot accurately the further you shoot vs a heavier rifle. With that in mind, a properly designed stock used correctly can help you shoot accurately with that lighter rifle. Then utilizing good technique and field rests helps a bunch too.

I have no difficulty achieving good hunting accuracy from my typical sported stocked rifles to 350 ish yards sitting off a bipod. Takes some practice. Much further and I am looking to get prone. Am good with that same stock to 600 prone.

So yes you can do it with the regular stock. But you will probably find the better designed stock an aid when shooting 300, 400 and to 500. You might consider getting that Tikka, shoot it, see how you do with it. You can always upgrade the stock if you feel it’s necessary. But those Seekings rifles are very nice. So either will work.

 

[eric1115]

What is your current setup? 500 yd is, as has been said pretty frequently around these parts, at the same time much easier and also much more difficult than people think.

There are cartridges thad that I would absolutely recommend over 300 Win mag for what you are describing. 6.5 creedmoor, 6mm creedmoor, wood both get you to $500 easily with enough terminal velocity to upset the excellent bullets that are readily available, cheap to buy, and pleasant to practice with.

The proficiency thad can only be had by shooting a lot is far far more important than anything you will gain by buying a magnum and not shooting it very often.

Do you have a suppressor now? I would 100% buy a plain Jane Tikka t3x and a can, over a sexy seekins or Rough Tech if we are talking about a blank slate here.

Good repeatable scope is absolutely critical, and really a whole other conversation. Have you looked at the scope evaluation area in the long range hunting subforum on this site?

 

[Jake Larsen]

How far past 500 are you wanting to be capable? 600 ish and under is a whole different ball game than 600 ish +. In terms cartridge selection, bullet selection, and equipment/scope. If you can decide a maximum range you’d be comfortable shooting at an animal, it’ll give a lot of direction to your build, and keep you from spending money you wish you hadn’t. You need some parameters for your build besides “long range”. How heavy of a rifle are you willing to carry? What max range are you trying to build this rifle for?

It’s relatively not that difficult to get a setup that is lethal out to 600 yards. Get a base platform that’s 1/2” capable and a stock with good ergos. As others have mentioned, sporter style stocks aren’t the best. I personally love the Manners PH stocks. A good scope that holds zero and will return to zero will be your biggest game changer. Look at the drop test page from Form. As others have stated, wind calls become your biggest enemy at extended range. Inside 600, wind is relatively easy to figure out with practice and a good reticle. There’s lots of cartridge options that won’t knock your teeth out and make you develop bad shooting habits, with plenty of energy at 600 yards. And at that range, you don’t have to shoot match bullets in order to still be consistent enough. As you may find in the world of Rokslide land, some people prefer to shoot unbonded match style bullets that create massive tissue damage. They shoot really well, and they definitely kill, but I personally want a bullet that leaves me an offside shoulder that’s still edible, and will hold together and penetrate on a quartering to shot. especially at average distances (sub 300 yards), which will still be far more common than the really long shots. If you want to be lethal in the 600-1000 yard range, your selections start to put you into a pretty small box.

I went down this same rabbit hole several years back, and finally feel like I’ve found my sweet spot in the last couple seasons.


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[180ls1]

It depends on what the money is worth to you but I bet you'd be better off with the tikka or ruger american + shooting school and a lot of ammo than with the more expensive rifle and no school.

 

[Rich M]

Have you tried to shoot 400-500-600 with your current rig?

If not, how do you know your stuff isn't up to the task?

 

[WyoKimber]

I was in the same boat as you and picked up a seekins ph2 in 7rm last summer. It is a phenomenal rifle and after dialing it in it was shooting .3 moa groups at 100 with factory ammo. It is a confidence inspiring rifle, and I had never shot beyond 400 at a range but the first day I was hitting at 1000 and felt like I couldn't miss at 600. The thing is, you can practice at the range, but the more you complicate the setup the more you have to change the processes you go through before you shoot and that can be hard to learn. My first day hunting with the rifle I set up for a shot on a bull at almost 500 yds, dialed my distance and got a good rest, but the bull stepped out of the window I had. Things happen, I move, and next thing I know the bull is right in front of me. Without thinking I pressed a shot off and shot right over his back since I had dialed for 500 and forgotten in the frenzy and afterwards I ranged it at 125. I'll never make the mistake again, but if I had my old .270 with a capped turret scope, the miss would have never happened. Getting a crazy accurate gun is easy these days, but figuring out how to use it well is a little harder.

 

[TaperPin]

Everyone has different taste and preferences, and there are hundreds of good alternatives.

A strategy that works well is to find someone with experience who shoots good at the distances you’re interested in and simply copy their setup and technique - 100% the same. Mixing and matching parts often works fine, but it can also cause a lot of headaches if one of your choices has a hidden problem that you’ll constantly fight. Someone else has already worked through small issues and bugs so you don’t have to. After you’re comfortable with it all, it will be obvious what to change, but at least you had a good rifle and shooting system to learn on.

 

[CRJR45]

I will second the buy a good scope suggestion , and ask if you reload ?
I've shot my Kimber .280 at 500 and it did very well , and my Savage UL 28 Nosler , at the range , with reloads and Trijicon or Nightforce scopes . I prefer the Trijicon truefully .
But , I recently bought a Seekins HAVAK in 28 Nosler and cannot say enough about how much I like this gun . The action is smooth , the magazine and the way it feeds , there is nothing I don't like about this rifle .
But , IMO , a good scope is the key , followed by finding a load a gun wants to shoot , either handloads or factory . Good luck .

 

[bpctcb]

..Past 500 yards wind is the #1 issue that causes people to miss. Only way to over come that challenge is volume of fire and calling wind..

I would add that a high bc bullet helps overcome wind. Great options available in 6.5mm, 7mm and .30 cal.

BP

 

[Alex Genereux]

I would add that a high bc bullet helps overcome wind. Great options available in 6.5mm, 7mm and .30 cal.

BP

I agree it helps but out past 600 yards if you miss judge the wind by a couple miles/hr you will miss. Most people aren’t good enough to call wind within 4 mph of actual wind speed not just where you are at but how the wind is and what it is doing through the whole bullet path.

Shoot2Hunt: FF EP.4 -Required Precision for Long-Range – on Apple Podcasts

Show Shoot2Hunt, Ep FF EP.4 -Required Precision for Long-Range – - Mar 8, 2024

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Jake Larsen]

I agree it helps but out past 600 yards if you miss judge the wind by a couple miles/hr you will miss. Most people aren’t good enough to call wind within 4 mph of actual wind speed not just where you are at but how the wind is and what it is doing through the whole bullet path.

Shoot2Hunt: FF EP.4 -Required Precision for Long-Range – on Apple Podcasts

Show Shoot2Hunt, Ep FF EP.4 -Required Precision for Long-Range – - Mar 8, 2024

podcasts.apple.com

Which is exactly why it’s a whole different ballgame to extend beyond 600 yards. If you’re going to do it, You have to start optimizing your bullet/cartridge selections for BC, speed, and consistency. In other words, really fast magnum type cartridges and match bullets, in order to give yourself the advantage on wind calls and get adequate bullet performance at long range. The problem is, those bullets don’t perform well at close ranges on game, unless you like to hand grenade your game animals. IMO, you can optimize for long range (600ish +) shots or you can optimize for 600ish yards and under shots, but not both. In the real world, you’ll have WAY more opportunities at game inside 300 yards than at long range. Why optimize your hunting specific setup for the very low odds scenario?

There are several excellent bullet options that shoot really well, have relatively high BCs, and are either bonded or have thick jackets, that are designed for controlled expansion on big game. They’re consistent enough to get adequate accuracy, and high enough BC to maintain speed for expansion at 600ish yards. Put these bullets in front of any number of moderate cartridges, and you’ll have a pleasant shooting package that performs properly on game at 50 yards, 600 yards, and everything in between. I’ve hunted/guided my whole life in the west, and it’s honestly very rare to NEED to shoot beyond 600 yards, unless you’re specifically seeking it out.

Just my .02 cents

 

[Alex Genereux]

Which is exactly why it’s a whole different ballgame to extend beyond 600 yards. If you’re going to do it, You have to start optimizing your bullet/cartridge selections for BC, speed, and consistency. In other words, really fast magnum type cartridges and match bullets, in order to give yourself the advantage on wind calls and get adequate bullet performance at long range. The problem is, those bullets don’t perform well at close ranges on game, unless you like to hand grenade your game animals. IMO, you can optimize for long range (600ish +) shots or you can optimize for 600ish yards and under shots, but not both. In the real world, you’ll have WAY more opportunities at game inside 300 yards than at long range. Why optimize your hunting specific setup for the very low odds scenario?

There are several excellent bullet options that shoot really well, have relatively high BCs, and are either bonded or have thick jackets, that are designed for controlled expansion on big game. They’re consistent enough to get adequate accuracy, and high enough BC to maintain speed for expansion at 600ish yards. Put these bullets in front of any number of moderate cartridges, and you’ll have a pleasant shooting package that performs properly on game at 50 yards, 600 yards, and everything in between. I’ve hunted/guided my whole life in the west, and it’s honestly very rare to NEED to shoot beyond 600 yards, unless you’re specifically seeking it out.

Just my .02 cents

Not sure what velocity range you would expect them to explode but I ran the eldm bullet in my 6.5 creed last year and took 2 frontal quartering too shots on 2 big does at less than 75 yards. Neither bullet exited and only a little bit of meat damage on the inside of the far shoulder. I plan to use them again this year in my 6cm I am having built.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Not sure what velocity range you would expect them to explode but I ran the eldm bullet in my 6.5 creed last year and took 2 frontal quartering too shots on 2 big does at less than 75 yards. Neither bullet exited and only a little bit of meat damage on the inside of the far shoulder. I plan to use them again this year in my 6cm I am having built.

What MV on your 6.5CM? In my guiding experience, I see a lot of guys with 6.5PRCs , 7 mags, 300 win mags, ect with that bullet and similar from Berger. At those higher MVs, I’ve seen a lot of softball size holes in animals at ranges inside 300. They die fast, but it’s really messy. Unless you’ve got a perfectly broadside shot and stay well off the shoulder, it can make a big mess. Also, on elk sized game I’ve seen several quartering to shots go bad. Doesn’t get through the front shoulder. I’ve seen dozens of animals shot with the ELDM and I personally do not like their performance. Not saying they won’t kill, I just prefer a bullet that expands, retains 50% or more of its weight, and exits. There’s a lot of guys who have had your experience as well, and like them. To each their own.


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[Formidilosus]

Also, on elk sized game I’ve seen several quartering to shots go bad. Doesn’t get through the front shoulder.

Do you have any pictures of these shoulders that heavy ELD-M and Bergers didn’t penetrate through?

 

[35WhelenAI]

Pictures or it didn't happen? I would take a guy at his word on what he saw as a guide, but I'm about as far from having a dog in this fight as could be, I shoot monos from a medium bore.