Lemon law anybody use it?

tony

WKR
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
789
Location
WV
Going to be long and I would appreciate some help.
2021 Ford Ranger 29,000 miles, bought off the lot new.

Since I bought the truck, cold weather, snow ice, the "pre collision" fault light would flash on the dash. Quick search should it was a common issue and I could see how that could happen so that's understandable.

About 3 weeks ago I stopped for gas and when I started it the pre collision and terrain management faults lit up. TM is sort of like 4wd auto pilot I guess you could say. Tried the TM button, sure enough nothing. 4wd worked fine, drove home got in it that night. all worked fine.
Over the next week TM and pre collision lit up on occasion. Heres the thing, the truck runs and drives fine. Go in for an oil change at the ford dealer and tell them whats going on. Make an appt. for this, and of course the lights are out. I'm there 2 hours and they can't find anything wrong, go figure. I leave and pull into Lowe's about 2 miles down the road. got my things and started the truck and hit the jackpot.
Pre collision, terrain management, steering, belt, hill assist, 911 voice system codes/ fault. I call teh dealer and said I am coming back I'm just up the road. Said pulled it in and leave it run. I do and the send the head mechanic out with his scanner. Clears the codes, drives it and they all come back on for him. Clears it again. Service advisor says well it could be the PCM, EC Something we don't know. "We just can't go replacing parts" What, I ask its under warranty. Well bring it back if it does it again. OK.
Day or 2 later I hit the slot machine of codes and the little orange wrench is flipping me off from the dash. I call, "can you have it here Wednesday" yep sure can. I drop it off, and they found a few codes and cleared them. Same shit as above, "cant just replace parts."
Heres the thing, I take pictures of the dash when it lights up and the cod/fault slot machine starts. I show them each time. I pick it up this Thursday of this week. I park it and I go to move it a few hours later for the GF to pull in the garage.

Man I hit the damn jack pot! all the above plus ABS and the brake light come on and it dies as soon as I put it in drive. I get it started and move it and call the dealer again. "Dude WTF!?" Really I am trying to be polite. Bring it back and leave it if you can. Sure can. I get it started, GF follows me, slot machine of bullshit is playing while I am driving to the dealer. Forgot to mention, steering gets real tight for a few minutes while all this is going on. Call the service desk and tell him this shit is flashing and codes flying while I'm driving. Said pull it in and leave it running. I said that was my plan you are going to look at this. Of course I'm shooting pics while driving. I get there and all teh mechanics are gone for the day. He sees the dash and I said sort of firm, "Look at my phone!" He scrolls through the pics and says "Well I guess we will have to call ford." Seriously, you have to call ford to fix the truck?

Calls me today, "Tony, a tech spent 8 hours on your truck, drove it 22 miles and no code fault lights came on. Said he was able to pull "old codes and bits of codes from the truck." Goes on to say something about the "main frame" and they just don't know." And just leaves it at that. So I ask what do I do when this happens again"

He says. "You probably should take it somewhere else for a second opinion." Are you ******* kidding me! I asked, are you refusing me any further service? "No Tony, you should just take it somewhere else for a 2nd opinion."
Cool, nearest other ford dealer is 30 miles away minimum.


So West Virginia lemon law says 3 times to fix or 1 life safety issue to be considered a lemon in WV. I've been 3 times in one week and got nothing as you can see. The steering, ABS, and brake light warnings, codes, faults seem to be a life safety issue.
I have only had one other brand new vehicle and it was a 1995 F150. And I had issues with it and started the lemon law process. Found a local attoreny and he litteraly made a phone call while I was sitting in his office. Said "can you be at the dealer on this date? I went and there were 3 for regional guys there and the truck was fixed that day.
Why does this have to be this way? I am under no illusion that the dealers and the makers don't give 2 shits about the guy or gal buying their cars.
I just want this thing fixed so I can unload it or bought back.

Listen, I can't thank anyone that can offer help or advice enough. This has actually given me a real damn headache all this bullshit.
 

dtrkyman

WKR
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
2,928
No clue on laws but I would video everything that truck does. Sucks to have to use another dealer but you may be surprised and they have a more competent tech to diagnose the problem.

Sounds like a possible ECM or ground problem but totally guessing.
 

S-3 ranch

WKR
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
980
Location
Sisterdale Texas / Hillcounrty
No clue on laws but I would video everything that truck does. Sucks to have to use another dealer but you may be surprised and they have a more competent tech to diagnose the problem.

Sounds like a possible ECM or ground problem but totally guessing.
I will 100% this
don’t know how WV lemon works , but my Chevy 1500 was in the shop for 8 week straight running different parts chasing codes, finally took it to a different dealer and they replaced the battery and ground wires and fixed the problem over a bad ECM & PCM
also recently serviced the GDI because it was throwing a O2 sensor code
only a lawyer can help with doing a lemon law case
 

NoCoElk

FNG
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
49
We had a very similar deal with our car. Locked all the doors couldn’t turn the car off. Had to reset a relay or something in the backdoor. Hasn’t done it again.
 

crich

WKR
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
671
Location
AK
Ford calls it their reacquired vehicle program (RAV). You may be able to search what stipulations they have. Reselling those vehicles is big business for the couple big ford dealerships that buy them at auctions.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
1,625
Location
Montana
In my life I bought two fords. The 68 Bronco had a carb that would freeze up and shut down. A real pain in the butt going over passes in the winter.

The second was a 1974 bronco. It was very unstable in 4- wd on the highway. The engine leaked oil like a seive. Took it to the dealer. The head mechanic said it leaked oil where there weren't any holes.

I have made a very special effort to never own another Ford. My sympathy goes out to you. I would be inclined to explore new opportunities and put this experience behind you.
 

Netherman

WKR
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
428
Location
Michigan
Sounds like a forward detection sensor/wiring issue (radar/camera) based on the "pre-collision" warning. Probably something that is used by TM as well. Faults are very descriptive these days and most OEs have troubleshooting/resolution trees for each fault. i.e. check this wire, that connector, if still problem replace xx.

Sounds to me like the dealer is doesn't want to mess with trying to fix it. In their defense, most OEs don't pay well for this sort of warranty claim as wiring issues can be a PITA and OEs generally only pay 0.5 hours for "diagnosing". I don't know anything about lemon laws or how that side of it works. Personally, I'd go down the "I'd love to write you guys a good review for helping me solve this problem (inferred bad review for not helping)". Hopefully they can straighten it out. They should not be clearing codes "to see if they come back". At this point they should have a record of the faults that have set the past four times you've been in. They need to start addressing them.
 
OP
T

tony

WKR
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
789
Location
WV
ECM was mentioned I believe.
I think my next week off, I'm going to just try another dealer and see what happens.
I do have a call out to a lawyer friend to see what he says
 

fngTony

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
5,033
I’m familiar with the pre collision alert systems. Starting around 2018 all manufacturers started using a heat grid to help keep the glass in front of the camera clear. Some fords (not sure on the ranger) used a grid that was glued to the glass instead of being imbedded, I’m sure you can imagine that grid coming off which would cause a fault. Now imagine that grids contact is fluctuating (gets stiff and pulls away when cold, relaxes when warm) the computer might interpret that as an electrical short.

Ford has been using the embedded heating element going forward. The bad thing is the electrical contacts could be loose, it’s basic female connections similar to the radio speakers. The good news here is that the wire is serviceable by itself, pull connections off the glass and just up under the headliner. Would need codes cleared afterwards.

Could be issue with the camera or the grid in the glass.

Could be corrosion on a computer (side note ford has a recall on a few vehicles for the windshield adhesive not bonding to paint causing leaks)

Could be a rodent ate into the harness. This happened to a ford at work. It was the main harness so as it flexed and broke electrical connection all kinds of systems would throw codes. If your ford had active adas (will modify steering and braking) vs passive adas (flashes light, beeps etc but doesn’t take action) then other things will be affected. For example if there is a steering issue or code then you adas system will show fault or not available because it can’t control the steering.

Edit, in some cases lights can go off when the vehicle is in park. That might explain why it goes away when you pull it up to the dealership. Cars need a few minutes or miles to complete a system check, might explain why they can’t replicate. As for the pre collision stuff it won’t work under 38mph or if no road lines can be read. If they didn’t meet those requirements on the diagnostic test drive or didn’t simulate a lane drift then they aren’t fully testing the pre collision systems. I say that because testing it is the final part of calibrating the system. Basic diagnostic protocol would be to test systems which it doesn’t sound like they did.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
578
Sounds like a really crappy dealer issue, not a lemon law issue.

The dealer just keeps clearing the codes, then Sending you away. They haven’t actually ever fixed, or even attempted to fix anything.

Clearing codes is not a repair

Take the dealers advice, go to a different dealer to fix your truck
 

Carpet Capital Shyster

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
129
Going to be long and I would appreciate some help.
2021 Ford Ranger 29,000 miles, bought off the lot new.

Since I bought the truck, cold weather, snow ice, the "pre collision" fault light would flash on the dash. Quick search should it was a common issue and I could see how that could happen so that's understandable.

About 3 weeks ago I stopped for gas and when I started it the pre collision and terrain management faults lit up. TM is sort of like 4wd auto pilot I guess you could say. Tried the TM button, sure enough nothing. 4wd worked fine, drove home got in it that night. all worked fine.
Over the next week TM and pre collision lit up on occasion. Heres the thing, the truck runs and drives fine. Go in for an oil change at the ford dealer and tell them whats going on. Make an appt. for this, and of course the lights are out. I'm there 2 hours and they can't find anything wrong, go figure. I leave and pull into Lowe's about 2 miles down the road. got my things and started the truck and hit the jackpot.
Pre collision, terrain management, steering, belt, hill assist, 911 voice system codes/ fault. I call teh dealer and said I am coming back I'm just up the road. Said pulled it in and leave it run. I do and the send the head mechanic out with his scanner. Clears the codes, drives it and they all come back on for him. Clears it again. Service advisor says well it could be the PCM, EC Something we don't know. "We just can't go replacing parts" What, I ask its under warranty. Well bring it back if it does it again. OK.
Day or 2 later I hit the slot machine of codes and the little orange wrench is flipping me off from the dash. I call, "can you have it here Wednesday" yep sure can. I drop it off, and they found a few codes and cleared them. Same shit as above, "cant just replace parts."
Heres the thing, I take pictures of the dash when it lights up and the cod/fault slot machine starts. I show them each time. I pick it up this Thursday of this week. I park it and I go to move it a few hours later for the GF to pull in the garage.

Man I hit the damn jack pot! all the above plus ABS and the brake light come on and it dies as soon as I put it in drive. I get it started and move it and call the dealer again. "Dude WTF!?" Really I am trying to be polite. Bring it back and leave it if you can. Sure can. I get it started, GF follows me, slot machine of bullshit is playing while I am driving to the dealer. Forgot to mention, steering gets real tight for a few minutes while all this is going on. Call the service desk and tell him this shit is flashing and codes flying while I'm driving. Said pull it in and leave it running. I said that was my plan you are going to look at this. Of course I'm shooting pics while driving. I get there and all teh mechanics are gone for the day. He sees the dash and I said sort of firm, "Look at my phone!" He scrolls through the pics and says "Well I guess we will have to call ford." Seriously, you have to call ford to fix the truck?

Calls me today, "Tony, a tech spent 8 hours on your truck, drove it 22 miles and no code fault lights came on. Said he was able to pull "old codes and bits of codes from the truck." Goes on to say something about the "main frame" and they just don't know." And just leaves it at that. So I ask what do I do when this happens again"

He says. "You probably should take it somewhere else for a second opinion." Are you ******* kidding me! I asked, are you refusing me any further service? "No Tony, you should just take it somewhere else for a 2nd opinion."
Cool, nearest other ford dealer is 30 miles away minimum.


So West Virginia lemon law says 3 times to fix or 1 life safety issue to be considered a lemon in WV. I've been 3 times in one week and got nothing as you can see. The steering, ABS, and brake light warnings, codes, faults seem to be a life safety issue.
I have only had one other brand new vehicle and it was a 1995 F150. And I had issues with it and started the lemon law process. Found a local attoreny and he litteraly made a phone call while I was sitting in his office. Said "can you be at the dealer on this date? I went and there were 3 for regional guys there and the truck was fixed that day.
Why does this have to be this way? I am under no illusion that the dealers and the makers don't give 2 shits about the guy or gal buying their cars.
I just want this thing fixed so I can unload it or bought back.

Listen, I can't thank anyone that can offer help or advice enough. This has actually given me a real damn headache all this bullshit.
I have been fortunate to not have had to use lemon law but one of my best friends had to go through the process in Georgia last year with a new tricked out Tahoe. It stayed in the shop so much it basically became an $80k paperweight. He got absolutely nowhere with Chevy on his own. He ultimately got an attorney and obtained a little bit of relief. Basically, it was back during the supply chain crunch and Chevrolet said they didn’t have any inventory to give him a comparable replacement (I call bullshit on that) but by that time he was just tired of dealing with it. They fixed his issues and he netted about $5k from Chevy for his troubles. He’s still driving that expensive paperweight, though.
 

Baddog

WKR
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Messages
395
I had a similar problem years ago with a shitty Chevy dealer basically not wanting to fix the truck under warranty a couple calls to the corporate office and was able to get ahold of the right person and the dealer rolled out the red carpet and fixed my problem but sucks to have to be a dick to get something fixed
 

hunterjmj

WKR
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
1,204
Location
Montana
We have 2 Ford Transit vans at work that have been in the shop more than they have on the road. Doors lock out of the blue, windshield wipers work as they please, the dash sings all day with multiple codes, etc. Ford had one for 2 days because the sliding door won't open and it had 32 faults on the dash. They told us to take it to another ford dealership because they couldn't figure it out. Took it to another ford dealership and they couldn't figure it out. I think the crap technology outpaced the ability to service these vehicles. I would assume lack of training and education on these new electronics is a yuge problem.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
913
Location
Harrisburg, Oregon
Okay Ford, here’s the deal.

I’m going to get a new truck. We both know that.

How I get that truck is up to you. Unpleasant, lemon law with attorneys involved, and really bad social media optics, or easy, with gee look how well they treated me after exhausting all options.

Which do you prefer?





P
 
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T

tony

WKR
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
789
Location
WV
Picked my truck up today. Service was closed so sales had my keys.
Guy hands me my keys and my papers. I get out to my truck and look at the papers.
I shit you not, 2 of the papers are the codes and faults they pulled.
And they cannot figure out what is wrong and told me to get a "2nd opinion".
**** all, I'm no mechanic but Im pretty sure you just hand me a road map of whats wrong.
 
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