Lead ingestion health risks

[RockAndSage]

It’s important to remember that “science”is a bunch of individuals. There isn’t any single oversight board. There are no annual discussions of what the goals are or what the political stance is on anything. It’s a bunch of nerds working independently who get feedback from their peers on their work at fairly long intervals. Science is also based on assumptions. And as “they” say, all assumptions are wrong. They are a placeholder until you get more information. The take home is that it’s not about whether you can trust science. Science is always something that requires scrutiny and interpretation. Most scientists would much rather tell you what they don’t know than what they do know. Science is also iterative and slow. But if there is a group you should be untrustworthy of, its the advocates and the policy makers.

You're right and not at the same time here.

Yes, "science" is a bunch of individuals. But those individuals were also matriculated through institutions where their worldviews and careers are impacted by cultural biases, which they internalize to greater or lesser degrees. Whether in grad school, post-grad, working in industry, government, or public policy, the relevant institutional culture of "they" is a very real thing with very real impacts on "science" - especially on any subject with an environmental or political bent.

Advocates and policy makers - yes, instant distrust until and unless proven otherwise. And - those who fund the science.

If someone does not know the institutions an individual scientist comes out of, and who is funding the science, then that "science" is simply not vetted.

 

[Hoopleheader]

^ Read this again.

Now...

Read your reply again:



I'm going to assume this was an unintentional straw-man argument, given the absurdity of suggesting I was saying that.





Yes, you are. Obama's director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service issued an order banning lead ammo from all federal wildlife refuges, the day before President Trump was first sworn in. It was rescinded by the Trump Administration. Then in 2022, Congresswoman Tammy Duckworth introduced legislation to do the same thing, and the Biden Administration also attempted to do the same thing. This covers it well.




My take is that the discussion was primarily oriented around the validity of the science on the subject - and it absolutely bears great danger in being misused as part of a political agenda by the left, whereby salami-slice bans on lead ammo are themselves part of a broader strategy in banning guns. The exact comment of ElPollos that I responded to dealt with the issues of the science, which are equally important whether talking about personal health or any "science" being weaponized against hunters.

This stuff matters.

Correct assumption on your part, I had no ill intent.

Appreciate the policy education.

 

[ElPollo]

You're right and not at the same time here.

Yes, "science" is a bunch of individuals. But those individuals were also matriculated through institutions where their worldviews and careers are impacted by cultural biases, which they internalize to greater or lesser degrees. Whether in grad school, post-grad, working in industry, government, or public policy, the relevant institutional culture of "they" is a very real thing with very real impacts on "science" - especially on any subject with an environmental or political bent.

Advocates and policy makers - yes, instant distrust until and unless proven otherwise. And - those who fund the science.

If someone does not know the institutions an individual scientist comes out of, and who is funding the science, then that "science" is simply not vetted.

Yeah, I disagree. I know some really conservative scientists and consider myself to be an educated, well-travelled, gun-toting, hillbilly. The world is very politically divided these days and it’s dangerous to make assumptions about what tribe people align themselves with. Having been both in the research and policy worlds, I would say you have less to worry about with scientists than you think. Most of them are frankly too autistic to be corrupted by funding. Folks like that are not capable of lying, no matter what their academic lineage is. Advocates and policy people seem to be more morally fluid and financially driven.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yeah, I disagree. I know some really conservative scientists and consider myself to be an educated, well-travelled, gun-toting, hillbilly. The world is very politically divided these days and it’s dangerous to make assumptions about what tribe people align themselves with. Having been both in the research and policy worlds, I would say you have less to worry about with scientists than you think. Most of them are frankly too autistic to be corrupted by funding. Folks like that are not capable of lying, no matter what their academic lineage is. Advocates and policy people seem to be more morally fluid and financially driven.

I work and have worked with scientists and Doctors quite a bit, and my experience and the current writ large landscape in America mirrors @RockAndSage thoughts.

 

[BlueJay]

I work and have worked with scientists and Doctors quite a bit, and my experience and the current writ large landscape in America mirrors @RockAndSage thoughts.

I’m a practicing biomedical scientist and have been around them most of my adult life. You’re both right, it’s just a matter of degree and specifics. Most scientific topics aren’t political and the majority of good studies aren’t influenced by funders, that’s not really how grants and study sections work, at least if we’re talking about basic biological science. On the other hand, there are a number of hot button issues that have been hijacked by advocacy groups, and yes pharma/biased actors.

 

[Dave C.]

Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy

Hello Kettle, this is the pot calling.

 

[Dave C.]

I quit reading after “Big Pharma.”




P

Can't look in the mirror, eh? I couldn't either if I was part of an industry that was directly attributable to so much illness and death of innocent people.

 

[ElPollo]

Can't look in the mirror, eh? I couldn't either if I was part of an industry that was directly attributable to so much illness and death of innocent people.

Do you feel better now?