Joseph von Benedikt vs Formidilosus

[Justin_Tree]

I never quite understood this part. The magnum vs smaller cartridge as to how people handle recoil, that's subjective and can at least be debated because how people handle recoil is different. The bullet choice thing isn't as subjective and there's a definite answer as to what causes more internal damage. As well as how much penetration is needed, through what resistance, etc.

What I find interesting is when people debate bullets selection it is almost like if you use the opposing bullet, it won’t work. Myself, I have killed 30+ animals with monos and don’t have much to complain about with them. however, I do find the match bullet argument quite compelling and would like to try them for hunting. Unfortunately I live in a state that that isn’t legal so I’m in a bit of a pickle.

Much like my opinion of the “fixed vs mechanical” argument there isn’t much substitute for good shot placement. Thats where I appreciate JVB’s recommendation to listeners on keeping hunting shots to 450 and less because I feel like there is so much hype on long range hunting that people think that because they have a weapon capable of long shots that they can shoot that far resulting in lost and crippled game. I think JVB does a lot of good for hunting opposed to many of the modern influencers.

 

[Steve O]

And now you have a quandary. A “do as I say, not as I do” situation. JVB shoots long range; but he is a highly skilled writer/expert. His brother did some poor long range shooting in a highly controversial way just last fall.

 

[bojangles808]

And now you have a quandary. A “do as I say, not as I do” situation. JVB shoots long range; but he is a highly skilled writer/expert. His brother did some poor long range shooting in a highly controversial way just last fall.

Was there ever an update to that

 

[AlpineCarpetbagger]

If I have to start scrolling past debate videos like “cranky fudd DESTROYED by FACTS and LOGIC” I’m getting a dedicated 338 WM squirrel gun and telling my gun-naive friends that anything smaller is unethical.

 

[CMP70306]

It’s because he is a huge proponent of old school cartridges and namely large diameter ones for their “bone crushing power” and how energy is needed to kill things.

Hell in the recent spomer bear video he recommended guys take an elk gun, and named 300 win for ….. black bear.

I don’t particularly care either way and don’t dislike the guy, but I find his adherence to needing energy and big boomers to feel like you can kill anything off putting, but I understand different people are different, and fudd is always a personally defined word. I general i save it for semi auto haters usually

I mean if you can shoot it well and it’s within it’s performance envelope there is little downside to using a larger cartridge but there are a lot of downsides to not using enough gun for the situation.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I mean if you can shoot it well and it’s within it’s performance envelope there is little downside to using a larger cartridge but there are a lot of downsides to not using enough gun for the situation.

I think the crux is actually being able to do what you say, or think, you can do. I would place a hefty wager that if put on the spot, most "famous" hunter, shooter, authors, etc., would eat crow from their actual performance. Form will say it's about a 1.2 MOA gun with said ammo, and pound out a 1.2" or less 10+ shot group on demand. The writers are shooting 3-5 shit groups. They would get smoked.

 

[Reburn]

I think the crux is actually being able to do what you say, or think, you can do. I would place a hefty wager that if put on the spot, most "famous" hunter, shooter, authors, etc., would eat crow from their actual performance. Form will say it's about a 1.2 MOA gun with said ammo, and pound out a 1.2" or less 10+ shot group on demand. The writers are shooting 3-5 shit groups. They would get smoked.

JVB's brother AVB already proved this last year.

 

[KenLee]

Was there ever an update to that

I believe the update is that all involved realized the accounts made them all look bad and they learned to shut up about it.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I mean if you can shoot it well

In regards to the post you're replying to, not that many people can shoot a 300WM as well as they shoot smaller cartridges. And I'd bet almost none of his audience can.

 

[CMP70306]

In regards to the post you're replying to, not that many people can shoot a 300WM as well as they shoot smaller cartridges. And I'd bet almost none of his audience can.

I think the crux is actually being able to do what you say, or think, you can do. I would place a hefty wager that if put on the spot, most "famous" hunter, shooter, authors, etc., would eat crow from their actual performance. Form will say it's about a 1.2 MOA gun with said ammo, and pound out a 1.2" or less 10+ shot group on demand. The writers are shooting 3-5 shit groups. They would get smoked.

Honestly prior to suppressors and better stock designs being commonplace I’d agree but these days you can do a lot to tame the bigger cartridges. I started shooting long range with a model 70 super grade in .300 WM shooting the 230 Bergers at 2750. It would shoot tiny groups but it took a lot of concentration to shoot it well and it kicks the shit out of you meaning you couldn’t do it for long.

In contrast my current win mag is maybe half a pound heavier with the suppressor and I shoot it substantially better with much less effort due to the reduction in recoil and muzzle blast.

I can understand dropping down to a smaller cartridge to shoot better but at the same time if I can tame the larger cartridge and get similar accuracy I’d rather shoot that. That’s why my main deer rifles for most of my life have been in 30-06 or more recently 6.5 PRC.

 

[TheGDog]

@DisplacedHusky NSYNC set up.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

Oh wow, that picture takes me back!

 

[grfox92]

Oh wow, that picture takes me back!

I remember when I got a 30 second anti skip, I felt like a Rockefeller.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[TheGDog]

I remember when I got a 30 second anti skip, I felt like a Rockefeller.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

I was rocking one of these on my Moto! A '97 Honda PC800 I was using for this horrible commute I had at the time.

 

[Mountainrancher]

JVB's brother AVB already proved this last year.

JVB’s brother AVB shot at a BOAL and proved that large cartridges and unreliable scopes cause disasters in the field. Hopefully when he goes after his ROAL he’ll use a RSS shooting TMKs with an SWFA so he won’t be SOL.

Man I spend to much time on this website

 

[Archer86]

What is a Fudd?

Anyone on rokslide is a fudd to someone

 

[THLR]

I don't know what a big-game hunting version of a Tactical Timmy would be called,

Stone Glacier Sammy???
Kifaru Kenny???

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I mean if you can shoot it well and it’s within it’s performance envelope there is little downside to using a larger cartridge but there are a lot of downsides to not using enough gun for the situation.

“There is little downside to using a smaller cartridge but there are a lot of downsides to using too much gun for the situation.

Fixed it for you

 

[CMP70306]

“There is little downside to using a smaller cartridge but there are a lot of downsides to using too much gun for the situation.

Fixed it for you

Actually the major downside to a smaller cartridge is you know, not killing what you are shooting at which is kind of the most important thing. Assuming equal shot placement nothing ever didn’t die because it was shot with too big of a bullet.

And too much gun is relative to the situation, apparently the .223 is good up to moose but I don’t see people on here advocating that anything more than the .17 Mach 2 is overkill for coyotes.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Actually the major downside to a smaller cartridge is you know, not killing what you are shooting at which is kind of the most important thing. Assuming equal shot placement nothing ever didn’t die because it was shot with too big of a bullet.

And too much gun is relative to the situation, apparently the .223 is good up to moose but I don’t see people on here advocating that anything more than the .17 Mach 2 is overkill for coyotes.

I would argue that more animals die slowly and or are not recovered due to bad hits from people not being able to manage recoil and shoot big calibers as good as they think they can, than by using a smaller caliber.

There's also a critical comparison of bullet construction left out of this hypothetical scenario that could make quite a difference in the outcome, like a big mono vs a smaller tipped match bullet.

 

[CMP70306]

I would argue that more animals die slowly and or are not recovered due to bad hits from people not being able to manage recoil and shoot big calibers as good as they think they can, than by using a smaller caliber.

There's also a critical comparison of bullet construction left out of this hypothetical scenario that could make quite a difference in the outcome, like a big mono vs a smaller tipped match bullet.

Hence my equal shot placement comment, thought I should have also added bullets of similar construction as well. If you can shoot the bigger rifle just as well as the smaller one with similar bullets I see no reason to downsize.

I also shoot 100% suppressed so my recoil scale is shifted significantly softer than if it was unsuppressed. I love my 18” 6.5 PRC but I would 100% not own it if I didn’t own a suppressor.