Is there an advantage to mil over MOA?

[Firestone]

Honestly use whatever your more comfortable with. I use both and can see advantages to each, especially mils when it comes to doping wind. But I can also see how MOA is easier for people to comprehend, especially hunters, because most hunters think in inches and MOA is easier to correlate in inches. Is either system wrong? No, if one is using their system correctly they will both do just fine. I will say this, why is it everyone references there gun as shooting 1moa or .5moa? Because its easy and nobody knows what .75mils is FYI most of my guns are mils, but I still believe shoot what your more comfortable with and they BOTH have advantages.

 

[MidGAHunter]

So, how is it that mils would be faster for me?

I dont think it will and for you, I never said it would be faster. Going back to post 102, my response to you was mainly in regards to your statement that "Knowing ranges off the top of your head in a hunting situation is meaningless if you’re shooting a distance that requires dialing." I don't think cutting time off your shot process is meaningless. Sounds like you have a good system that works and works quickly for you, and that's my main point here. I moved to MILs because it was one of several things that cut time off MY setup process. Again, that worked for me. Sounds like we mostly agree except regarding what I quoted above regarding meaningless.

 

[MidGAHunter]

I will say this, why is it everyone references there gun as shooting 1moa or .5moa? Because its easy and nobody knows what .75mils is .

If you really want to screw with someone at the range, when they ask how well your rifle shoots tell them "Oh I'm quarter-MIL all day with this setup." It's not uncommon for the response to be along the lines of "Nice! Wait...what?"

 

[Firestone]

If you really want to screw with someone at the range, when they ask how well your rifle shoots tell them "Oh I'm quarter-MIL all day with this setup." It's not uncommon for the response to be along the lines of "Nice! Wait...what?"

Lol exactly!!!

 

[Dobermann]

JesusFuk, Thread been about Attractive as a SchoolBus Fire

Ooooohhhh noooo ... this conversation can get way worse. Or better, depending in your point of view, and how much trolling, trolling of trolls, and noise-to-signal ratio you want to put up with.

But, if you've got nothing better to do - or really want to see how far this debate can go, you might get a kick out of this: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/moa-vs-mil.7060652/

Or this: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/current-state-of-moa-and-mil.6949029/

Warning: if you Red Pill this and click on the above, don't blame me for those precious minutes you'll never get back.

But at the very least, you'll learn that '1 squirrel ball at 1000 squirrel balls away is 1 mil.'

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Perfect reason to know your drops before heading afield. One mil at 100 yds is 3.6". So 4 x 3.6 is 14.4. 38 ÷ 14.4 is 2.63 mils.

Exactly what I was looking for. I agree on knowing drops before the hunt. Honestly, just looking to understand the math which you clearly answered in less than 2 lines. Thank you!

MOA head math if you will: 38"/4 MOA = 9.5 MOA. Denominator no head math required.

With mil, one extra step to get the denominator. distance in yards to target/100 x 3.6 = denominator. if you're 520 yards to target 5.2x3.6 = denominator in inches.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

If I were shooting that far at an animal I wouldn’t depend on math, I would depend on DOPE and already know my adjustments out the distance I’d be comfortable shooting.

Understand.

BUT...if you lose your DOPE card..then what? If memorized, forget the number in the heat of the moment.

This has probably happened to someone. In the field hunting lost the card or can't remember the numbers, you have no reception, need to make a DOPE card or determine the adjustment for a shot on the fly, but they don't know how to do the math.

I want to understand the head math in addition to a DOPE card.

Same with RF. Great tool...which can fail. I want to know how to range the animal using my reticle if needed.

 

[03machstock]

Understand.

BUT...if you lose your DOPE card..then what?

This has probably happened to someone. In the field hunting, no reception, need to make a DOPE card or determine the adjustment for a shot, but they don't know how to do the math.

I want to understand the head math.

Understand.

BUT...if you lose your DOPE card..then what?

This has probably happened to someone. In the field hunting, no reception, need to make a DOPE card or determine the adjustment for a shot, but they don't know how to do the math.

I want to understand the head math.

Personally I would memorize my DOPE at distances I could be shooting at. Where I hunt the shots are generally less than 100 yards, but know my DOPE for that rifle/load out to 350. If I had to shoot further I would do it ahead of time and know. IMO there’s too much error relying on just math, use proven data. I understand what your asking, I just wouldn’t rely on that in that situation.

 

[prm]

Look at the drop in mils for your situation. Mils do make remembering easy, even for a non-mil trained guy such as myself.

This is 200-500 for my rifle elk hunting at elevation. Toss a .1 in there for each 10 yards and I’ll be close enough. I say to myself “half, one two, two one, three” enough times to have that memorized for as far as I’ll be shooting. Dial to the nearest memorized hundred, then add or subtract one click for each ten yards off the hundred. This will get me within one click to the ranges I shoot. If you write the hundreds on the dial (piece of tape), you don’t even need to memorize.

200: .5
300: 1.2
400: 2.1
500: 3

 

[Axlrod]

Understand.

BUT...if you lose your DOPE card..then what? If memorized, forget the number in the heat of the moment.

This has probably happened to someone. In the field hunting lost the card or can't remember the numbers, you have no reception, need to make a DOPE card or determine the adjustment for a shot on the fly, but they don't know how to do the math.

I want to understand the head math in addition to a DOPE card.

Same with RF. Great tool...which can fail. I want to know how to range the animal using my reticle if needed.

My dope is taped on my rifle, so if I lose my dope, I won't need it anyway lol.
It is also in my BR4 rangefinder and in strelok pro in my phone. And I also had a spare Leica rangefinder in my pack this year until I can trust the BR4. Been using Leica rangefinders since they came out 20+ years maybe, and haven't had one not work. But I only keep them a couple years before replacing.

 

[Rob5589]

Exactly what I was looking for. I agree on knowing drops before the hunt. Honestly, just looking to understand the math which you clearly answered in less than 2 lines. Thank you!

MOA head math if you will: 38"/4 MOA = 9.5 MOA. Denominator no head math required.

With mil, one extra step to get the denominator. distance in yards to target/100 x 3.6 = denominator. if you're 520 yards to target 5.2x3.6 = denominator in inches.

Glad it helped. In my, average at best, level of shooting, the issue I see with moa is the rounding down from 1.047 to 1. With that same distance and drop, you'd dial 9.07, or realistically 9 moa. That extra .5 is a 2" difference at 400 yds. Is it enough to matter? Maybe. Say you make a shot 5" low. You're likely still getting lung towards the bottom. Now add in that extra 2" and maybe you're under the lung. Longer you go, the more off you are. Do the actual math and there's no difference.

 

[Rob5589]

Understand.

BUT...if you lose your DOPE card..then what? If memorized, forget the number in the heat of the moment.

This has probably happened to someone. In the field hunting lost the card or can't remember the numbers, you have no reception, need to make a DOPE card or determine the adjustment for a shot on the fly, but they don't know how to do the math.

I want to understand the head math in addition to a DOPE card.

Same with RF. Great tool...which can fail. I want to know how to range the animal using my reticle if needed.

You absolutely can, if you know the size of the animal. Preferably something like the top of back to bottom of chest measurement. Which means you now have to have solid knowledge of the animal you're pursuing. There'll be a big difference between a young spike and an old 6 pt in chest depth if using that to range. Best to keep multiple copies or examples of your dope. Just in case.

 

[Formidilosus]

Understand.

BUT...if you lose your DOPE card..then what? If memorized, forget the number in the heat of the moment.

So you can remember the drop in inches for every range, but not the number of mils?

 

[Mule3006Elk]

So you can remember the drop in inches for every range, but not the number of mils?

I like to understand the math is the point. It helps me understands mil vs MOA if I understand how one calculates the adjustments.

Rob5589 gave me the cliff note version of how to calc mil. That's what I was looking for. When I researched the topic I never found a simple version as Rob5589 provided. Definitely makes more sense now.

 

[Marbles]

I like to understand the math is the point. It helps me understands mil vs MOA if I understand how one calculates the adjustments.

Rob5589 gave me the cliff note version of how to calc mil. That's what I was looking for. When I researched the topic I never found a simple version as Rob5589 provided. Definitely makes more sense now.

At 100 yards, 1 mil subtends 1/10 of a yard (3.6 inches), at 100 meters it is 1/10th of a meter (10 cm).

At 400 yards it subtends 4/10ths of a yard. Because yards are 3 feet and feet are 12 inches this gives complex math (3.6x4=14.4 inches). If you want to do math or get leaner measurements, using meters is easier.

Regarding margin of error between MOA and mils due to rounding, I think both have error as we are talking about a straight line, but the 10 cm number for mils is exact for the arc (a curved line).

So, 1 mil really corresponds to 9.59 cm (rounded) at 100 meters. Damnit, one more argument I made earlier that is not factually correct, at least no one else was able to point it out to me, some small comfort.

So, to correct my first paragraph, 1 mil results in moving the point of impact 3.45 inches (rounded).

So, on a visual scale (rounding to nearest 10th or 1/4) 7 MOA = 2.0 mil.

At 400 yards, the rounding error for that is 1.3 inches using 1 MOA to 1 inch and it is 1.2 inches using 1 mil to 3.6 inches.

I hate myself at the moment because I just destroyed an argument I rather liked.

@Rob5589 sorry, I have used that argument, until just a moment ago.

 

[Marbles]

Out of curiosity, I looked up the definition of subtend. It can refer to a straight line (what we are moving bullet impacts by) or an arc. So it is correct to say 1 MOA subtends 1.047 inches at 100 yards (a straight line) or to say 1 mil subtends 3.6 inches at 100 yards (a curved line).

The key is that it is talking about two different things. The straight line is what we care about.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

At 100 yards, 1 mil subtends 1/10 of a yard (3.6 inches), at 100 meters it is 1/10th of a meter (10 cm).

At 400 yards it subtends 4/10ths of a yard. Because yards are 3 feet and feet are 12 inches this gives complex math (3.6x4=14.4 inches). If you want to do math or get leaner measurements, using meters is easier.

Regarding margin of error between MOA and mils due to rounding, I think both have error as we are talking about a straight line, but the 10 cm number for mils is exact for the arc (a curved line).

So, 1 mil really corresponds to 9.59 cm (rounded) at 100 meters. Damnit, one more argument I made earlier that is not factually correct, at least no one else was able to point it out to me, some small comfort.

So, to correct my first paragraph, 1 mil results in moving the point of impact 3.45 inches (rounded).

So, on a visual scale (rounding to nearest 10th or 1/4) 7 MOA = 2.0 mil.

At 400 yards, the rounding error for that is 1.3 inches using 1 MOA to 1 inch and it is 1.2 inches using 1 mil to 3.6 inches.

I hate myself at the moment because I just destroyed an argument I rather liked.

@Rob5589 sorry, I have used that argument, until just a moment ago.

Brother, this helps as well. Definitely clicking no pun intended. LOL

 

[Marbles]

 

[Rob5589]

This explains it easily and far better than I can.

Long Range Shooting - MOA and MILS explained

A MIL or an MOA linear equivalent increases proportionally with distance. With the MOA and MIL systems, you correct the position of the reticle inside the scope, based on wind deflection and trajectory of the bullet at the target’s distance.

www.longrangeshooting.org

 

[Macro]

I went from MOA to MIL because all the spotters in the competitions at my local range called misses in MIL's, and if you had an MOA scope, you had to do the math on the fly while trying to line up your next shot. Frankly, MOA is easier and at times I wish I'd stayed there.