MtGomer
WKR
I have an $1100 tent, OnX subscription, GoHUNT insider and paid for elk university twice, and subscribed to the FittoHuntBigMountainMuleys workout program monthly for the past year. . Anybody know of any decent optics for under $200?
Is the marketing of hunting destroying hunting?
- Thread starter Farmerlentz
- Start date
I have an $1100 tent, OnX subscription, GoHUNT insider and paid for elk university twice, and subscribed to the FittoHuntBigMountainMuleys workout program monthly for the past year. . Anybody know of any decent optics for under $200?
In all seriousness I am much more concerned about the loss of hunt-able land and the commercialization of game vs the product and marketing. I don't care about the amount of people hunting per say vs the loss of available places to hunt. This will eventually drive everyone out of the game in which case there will not be any support for legislation to support habitat and conservation.
The other thing that drives me nuts is the "Who cares I got mine attitude". All of the problems with hunting and politics we are facing can't just be solved by sucking it up and working harder to hunt. That's not some fix all approach, we need to be active in our voices and wallets in supporting those with a bigger voice and do the right thing.
Otherwise everything will be chipped and whittled away at until there's nothing left to hunt besides pay to play ranches.
The other thing that drives me nuts is the "Who cares I got mine attitude". All of the problems with hunting and politics we are facing can't just be solved by sucking it up and working harder to hunt. That's not some fix all approach, we need to be active in our voices and wallets in supporting those with a bigger voice and do the right thing.
Otherwise everything will be chipped and whittled away at until there's nothing left to hunt besides pay to play ranches.
So true... nailed it.
MuleyFever
WKR
I moved out west from WI to hunt. I had enough of the struggle to find a place to hunt. Leases were really starting to take up a lot of land and a lot of landowners just wouldn’t let you hunt because of bad hunters previously. Good properties for hunting are also being lost to land fragmentation when the parents pass and the kids split it up to build houses on.
This commercialization of hunting and social media is changing hunting for sure. Ruining the way some are used to for sure but I don’t know about ruining hunting. I don’t participate in any of the main stream social media so I am not in the loop on what is hot and plan to keep it that way.
This commercialization of hunting and social media is changing hunting for sure. Ruining the way some are used to for sure but I don’t know about ruining hunting. I don’t participate in any of the main stream social media so I am not in the loop on what is hot and plan to keep it that way.
Well, at Expo they announced that we lost over 2 million hunters in the last few years...but I'd agree totally that there is more focused hunter out there applying for tags than yesteryear. I noticed this starting in the mid-2000s even before IG/FB/Rokslide, it's just more intense now.
MallardSX2
WKR
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It used to be that guys took trips out west every couple years. Now that the economy is doing good everyone wants to go out every year. This is hard on acquiring tags and having lots of animals to hunt. When the economy tanks again one day the hunting will return to normal.
It’s just the new thing, it’ll swing back in a few years. Duck hunting exploded after Duck Dynasty, hell for a few years in the south we saw a huge increase in small game hunters. So much so that you almost couldn’t find places to run rabbits. Then the newness wore off, folks got tired of the work and you could buy a beagle for cheap. Same for duck hunting. Some of the new hunters will be retained but a lot will quit.
PS: I’m also soon to be one of the new hunters out west thanks to several of the shows. So, guess I’ll be part of the problem.
PS: I’m also soon to be one of the new hunters out west thanks to several of the shows. So, guess I’ll be part of the problem.
Jacob_Outdoors
WKR
That’s my point, and the problem. These “industry professionals” have no problem building their brand on these lands and animals but don’t provide a lot in return. Why should it take 10+ years for someone to mature and give back? I’m 31, grew up in a hunting family but didn’t start hunting until around 9 years ago. I’m heavily involved with BHA and a local organization known as OHA (Oregon Hunters Association).
The point is why should people build something on a free resource available to everyone and then feel they need to do nothing to preserve that resource? I’m not talking about donating money. Just by mentioning the wildlife and land issues on their platforms they could be providing value. Reaching 50k+ people with a post who otherwise might not have any idea could do a lot.
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Azone
WKR
Social media basically ruined a trip to Colorado for me last year. My buddy I went with was more interested in posting updates and pictures than trying to find deer. Calling everyone he knew asking about where we could go in this unit to find a buck. I almost chucked his phone in the snow!
Then the flat out complaining about all the pictures on Instagram with some guy bragging about his 180 taken on day 2 with their new 8K super rifle, and that if it was not for Mtn Opps they would not have had the strength to do it.
People are turning hunting into a stick measuring contest whether we like it or not. I dont hunt to compete, I hunt to get the hell away from society and civilization and to load a freezer. I dont hunt for social media glory, never have never will.
My wife may occasionally post a picture of my daughters and I on Facebook so the family can see but that's as far as that goes. Hunting the west is a hot fad that will ultimately run its course when everyone realizes how much work it really is.
Then the flat out complaining about all the pictures on Instagram with some guy bragging about his 180 taken on day 2 with their new 8K super rifle, and that if it was not for Mtn Opps they would not have had the strength to do it.
People are turning hunting into a stick measuring contest whether we like it or not. I dont hunt to compete, I hunt to get the hell away from society and civilization and to load a freezer. I dont hunt for social media glory, never have never will.
My wife may occasionally post a picture of my daughters and I on Facebook so the family can see but that's as far as that goes. Hunting the west is a hot fad that will ultimately run its course when everyone realizes how much work it really is.
tdhanses
WKR
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I feel access has become more difficult because more people are willing or have the means to pay to lock down leases. I can’t fault the landowners for adding a new revenue stream but this does effect new Hunter recruitment. I like how the state of KS leases land for public use, more states need to do this if they want to see their game departments continuously funded in the coming years.
I will say when my dad was growing up no one traveled to hunt but the extremely wealthy, they only could read the stories in outdoor life etc and dream, now we have many middle class individuals that can afford to travel to hunt.
To me it feels like hunting is becoming a rich mans sport yet when I talk to my dad, I do at the same age, what he and his father only dreamed of. I remember thinking Africa would be a place I never would have an opportunity to hunt, today we can hunt Africa for half the price of a single species Alaska hunt, heck even the Alaska residents pay close to what an African hunt cost just to hunt sheep as a resident.
Gear expenses are a choice but look back through our history and I see more people affording hunts that were just a dream for their fathers and grandfathers.
So do I think marketing or social media is hurting hunting, no, I think it’s only there because more people can afford to travel to hunt. Yes it is expensive and some still do not have the ability to do it and only dream, but overall more middle class individuals can travel to hunt and hunt more then only local game then the middle class of 40 years ago.
I will say when my dad was growing up no one traveled to hunt but the extremely wealthy, they only could read the stories in outdoor life etc and dream, now we have many middle class individuals that can afford to travel to hunt.
To me it feels like hunting is becoming a rich mans sport yet when I talk to my dad, I do at the same age, what he and his father only dreamed of. I remember thinking Africa would be a place I never would have an opportunity to hunt, today we can hunt Africa for half the price of a single species Alaska hunt, heck even the Alaska residents pay close to what an African hunt cost just to hunt sheep as a resident.
Gear expenses are a choice but look back through our history and I see more people affording hunts that were just a dream for their fathers and grandfathers.
So do I think marketing or social media is hurting hunting, no, I think it’s only there because more people can afford to travel to hunt. Yes it is expensive and some still do not have the ability to do it and only dream, but overall more middle class individuals can travel to hunt and hunt more then only local game then the middle class of 40 years ago.
I hope you are joking lol
OFFHNTN
WKR
- Joined
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- 472
Which particular flat brim cap area are you talking about?
mmcdonough
Lil-Rokslider
I see both sides of it. I grew up in Idaho, lived there for 27 years. I wish I had taken more advantage of the vast access I had at my fingertips but you don't really think about it until it's in the rear view.
Yea, it sucked when you'd go to your spot that you scouted the month before and every campground in the canyon is filled to the brim with out of state plates. That's just a part of hunting out west now though. Locals still have a distinct advantage living and having access to the area year round. Most the of Eastern and Midwest hunters just pick a random spot on google maps or go off what they read on forums like this. Feeling their way around like a blind mouse.
Now I live in the mid-west and it's an entirely different ball-game. You think it's crowded out west? City hunters flood every inch of Northern MN during the opener. I don't know how more people don't get shot by a trigger happy city boy that is willing to shoot at any piece of brush that moves. They all lease property and most have zero experience hunting. I luckily have access to a couple hundred acres of my wife's family lands but they still feel extremely crowded. The morning of deer opener sounds like a shooting range. I counted at least 30 shots within ear range of my stand.
People want to get away from these crowds. That's the appeal of the west and that's why I plan on going back this season after a 5 year break. You can say that it's becoming overcrowded but there's still many thousands of square miles that people generally don't go on. Places you can go that get you that feeling of solitude, the feeling that it wouldn't take much to get lost or one slip of your boot can send you flying down the hill side.
In my opinion it's not a bad problem to have, especially considering the influx of revenue that state conservation agencies see. Local towns always get an extra economic boost as well. Then you have to consider that probably only an average of 10%-20% of non-residents even fill their tags. That's a lot of revenue coming in with not a lot of game being taken out.
Yea, it sucked when you'd go to your spot that you scouted the month before and every campground in the canyon is filled to the brim with out of state plates. That's just a part of hunting out west now though. Locals still have a distinct advantage living and having access to the area year round. Most the of Eastern and Midwest hunters just pick a random spot on google maps or go off what they read on forums like this. Feeling their way around like a blind mouse.
Now I live in the mid-west and it's an entirely different ball-game. You think it's crowded out west? City hunters flood every inch of Northern MN during the opener. I don't know how more people don't get shot by a trigger happy city boy that is willing to shoot at any piece of brush that moves. They all lease property and most have zero experience hunting. I luckily have access to a couple hundred acres of my wife's family lands but they still feel extremely crowded. The morning of deer opener sounds like a shooting range. I counted at least 30 shots within ear range of my stand.
People want to get away from these crowds. That's the appeal of the west and that's why I plan on going back this season after a 5 year break. You can say that it's becoming overcrowded but there's still many thousands of square miles that people generally don't go on. Places you can go that get you that feeling of solitude, the feeling that it wouldn't take much to get lost or one slip of your boot can send you flying down the hill side.
In my opinion it's not a bad problem to have, especially considering the influx of revenue that state conservation agencies see. Local towns always get an extra economic boost as well. Then you have to consider that probably only an average of 10%-20% of non-residents even fill their tags. That's a lot of revenue coming in with not a lot of game being taken out.
Interesting thread... didn't think I would contribute, but here I go anyway.
Personally, I do everything in my power to avoid the things that media enhanced hunting is turning into... "Sponsored by" anything, needing flat bill hats, needing mountain ops to survive, gluten free game bags, organic knives, trendy camo, solar powered camp stoves, social media posting during or after the hunt, face paint, the coolest vegan approved packs, electric gloves, scopes with the most glitter, podcasts of famous hunters and outdoor personalities, designer underwear, cool kids conservation group t-shirts, gear with "better than yours" brand labels, draw services, rifles that shoot 2,700 yards, and pretty much anything that is pushed as "cool" in the hunting world. (Some sarcasm in there for humor, but all true). How did hunters be successful before hunt became all the rage??
I'm not old, but I guess I'm old fashioned and feel that stuff ruins it for me. It turns me off of hunting, but because we're in a free country and capitalism prevails (thank God) I can take my time, attention, and money elsewhere. I like to hunt in places where I can get away from others and just use the equipment that works for me without trying to make a fashion statement. Every year hunting gets more back to the basics of how I started. I'm fortunate enough to be able to hunt just about anywhere I want by any means, but going to the basics and most practical methods gets me the most enjoyment nowadays. My hunting career has come full circle, I guess. I'm all for people doing what they want, but too often I look at a hunter and I feel bad for them needing all that dumb designer crap to maintain their image of a fashionable western hunter.
15 years ago I watched hunting and fishing shows on TV and now haven't done that in 5+ years (and most of the people I know are the same). I stopped listening to most podcasts because of the same reason... same old stuff and people trying to promote them or their brand. I don't go to outdoor related trade shows anymore (unless its for work)... I generally avoid anything related to hunting in the media... etc.
All that said, regardless of the negatives I associate with it, I think that anyone is free to do anything they want as long as its legal... including making a buck in commercializing the sport. I don't fault them, because there is a market for it- i.e. most of the people on this site. I do feel that it is part of our society now and will have a long term effect on hunting for the reasons others above noted. Hunters as a whole, will get smaller, but hunters with means to have a place to go will grow.
Personally, I do everything in my power to avoid the things that media enhanced hunting is turning into... "Sponsored by" anything, needing flat bill hats, needing mountain ops to survive, gluten free game bags, organic knives, trendy camo, solar powered camp stoves, social media posting during or after the hunt, face paint, the coolest vegan approved packs, electric gloves, scopes with the most glitter, podcasts of famous hunters and outdoor personalities, designer underwear, cool kids conservation group t-shirts, gear with "better than yours" brand labels, draw services, rifles that shoot 2,700 yards, and pretty much anything that is pushed as "cool" in the hunting world. (Some sarcasm in there for humor, but all true). How did hunters be successful before hunt became all the rage??
I'm not old, but I guess I'm old fashioned and feel that stuff ruins it for me. It turns me off of hunting, but because we're in a free country and capitalism prevails (thank God) I can take my time, attention, and money elsewhere. I like to hunt in places where I can get away from others and just use the equipment that works for me without trying to make a fashion statement. Every year hunting gets more back to the basics of how I started. I'm fortunate enough to be able to hunt just about anywhere I want by any means, but going to the basics and most practical methods gets me the most enjoyment nowadays. My hunting career has come full circle, I guess. I'm all for people doing what they want, but too often I look at a hunter and I feel bad for them needing all that dumb designer crap to maintain their image of a fashionable western hunter.
15 years ago I watched hunting and fishing shows on TV and now haven't done that in 5+ years (and most of the people I know are the same). I stopped listening to most podcasts because of the same reason... same old stuff and people trying to promote them or their brand. I don't go to outdoor related trade shows anymore (unless its for work)... I generally avoid anything related to hunting in the media... etc.
All that said, regardless of the negatives I associate with it, I think that anyone is free to do anything they want as long as its legal... including making a buck in commercializing the sport. I don't fault them, because there is a market for it- i.e. most of the people on this site. I do feel that it is part of our society now and will have a long term effect on hunting for the reasons others above noted. Hunters as a whole, will get smaller, but hunters with means to have a place to go will grow.
elkduds
WKR
Been hunting CO for half a century. Because CO is the 800# gorilla of western hunting, it is also the canary in the coal mine. Meaning trends show up here first, then spread to other western states. Example: influx of Californians increasing real estate prices and changing state politics. Another example, CWD.
Some observations on trends that have made a difference, and those that have not, in order of lasting impact.
State population growth, the one that causes all the others. Our game herds have lost most of their winter range to development. Game is concentrated on the remaining, less desirable winter range where they are more vulnerable to bad winters, disease and predators. There is plenty of summer range, even w cattle grazing.
Great increases in motorized access on public lands by recreational users, not just during the fall.
Massive gas and oil development. Bye bye Piceance deer heaven.
What has made less or no difference:
Changes to the political structure of DOW/CPW. They are better in some regards, worse in others. Overall, they wind up responding to the factors above, not causing them.
Electronic media. Its just a thing people do, that matters little to game herds. Hunter success rates have not varied despite technological advances, even long range "hunting." It still sucks when I have stalked a bull for a mile and somebody takes a poke @ him from the road, over my head.
Camo, blaze pink, laser rangefinders, replaceable knife blades, new rifle calibers, hat brims, etc.
One to watch out for: drones
Some observations on trends that have made a difference, and those that have not, in order of lasting impact.
State population growth, the one that causes all the others. Our game herds have lost most of their winter range to development. Game is concentrated on the remaining, less desirable winter range where they are more vulnerable to bad winters, disease and predators. There is plenty of summer range, even w cattle grazing.
Great increases in motorized access on public lands by recreational users, not just during the fall.
Massive gas and oil development. Bye bye Piceance deer heaven.
What has made less or no difference:
Changes to the political structure of DOW/CPW. They are better in some regards, worse in others. Overall, they wind up responding to the factors above, not causing them.
Electronic media. Its just a thing people do, that matters little to game herds. Hunter success rates have not varied despite technological advances, even long range "hunting." It still sucks when I have stalked a bull for a mile and somebody takes a poke @ him from the road, over my head.
Camo, blaze pink, laser rangefinders, replaceable knife blades, new rifle calibers, hat brims, etc.
One to watch out for: drones
FLAK
WKR
Down here phrases like Whitetail Management, Quality Management, Cull Buck, Inferior Rack/Deer, Doe quota, President / Vice President of the Club, Stand #'s, etc...…..are what really turn me off.
I just like to hunt.
I just like to hunt.
I knew it was sarcasm, Cooper doesn't make the Backcountry in 300RUM
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- 273
This is an interesting post for me to follow. I appreciate all the comments and think about each of them. Thanks for sharing.
Randy even though you market products hard, that’s just part of the business and I’ve never found it to be overwhelming. You do a great job being a voice for the hunting community.
Keep up the good work!
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