Is the marketing of hunting destroying hunting?

[eoperator]

I am another guy from Wisconsin that is displaced/lost interest in hunting around home. Its amazing how access has been changed in recent years by city/out of state people spending big money on hunting leases. I cant hack the mainstream trophy whitetail hunters that dominate our landscape now and how you are ''looked down on'' for harvesting anything less than record book animals.
See you on the mountain this fall [sorry in advance].

 

[Zoomfish]

Now what would your granddaddy say about your very well thought out social media post about marketing and social media on this social media platform?

Did he buy his scratchy ass wool WWII surplus long johns that he hunted in $30tyd? Did he log on to Rokslide to get tips on how to take 3.7682oz of weight off his cool rifle?

Did a bunch of excited, ambitious entrepreneurs take advantage of technology to market their gear to the masses; bigger market = more profit, more funds into R&D, making super duper ultralight weight gear affordable so douchebags like me can fill a closet with it?

Did podcasts and youtube give a platform to some outdoor types to spread their message and hook a bunch of new wannabe hunters, i.e. more out of state tag fees, taxes on hunting gear to conservation, etc?

Unfortunately, shooting a rat with antlers over a pile of corn doesn't feel very sporting to me...so I head west. Don't worry, I'll wave to you when I see ya in the backcountry and say "howdy, see any biggums round here?!?"

So once everyone hits the reset button to go back to the way things used to be after they're done patting themselves on the back for their purity and selling all their high tech / ultralight gear....I wear vias underwear, extra small. Please PM me!

Cheers! Jesse

"Anyone can steal your idea (trailhead, honey hole, IDENTITY!), but they can't steal your execution."

 

[JWP58]

Well, at Expo they announced that we lost over 2 million hunters in the last few years...but I'd agree totally that there is more focused hunter out there applying for tags than yesteryear. I noticed this starting in the mid-2000s even before IG/FB/Rokslide, it's just more intense now.

I'm very interested in this. Did they cite where the numbers come from at all? Or what specific organization made the statement (might have further info I can seek out).

Thanks.

 

[ndbuck09]

OnX, helps a ton of people gain a ton of knowledge about areas to apply and to hunt. No argument can be made that it doesn't increase the pressure, crowding etc in the west. At the end of the day has it made hunting better??? That question never gets asked because so many influencers are on their payroll. On the flip side of that, who wouldn't want to be compensated to hunt and think about hunting all the time? Many a guy's dream out there.

 

[robby denning]

I'm very interested in this. Did they cite where the numbers come from at all? Or what specific organization made the statement (might have further info I can seek out).

Thanks.

Oh ya, they quoted all that and it was a reliable source. It was at the auction opener on Friday night, but I wasn't taking notes so I can't remember. But it was clearly an undisputed number and I saw it quoted somewhere else since then. Sorry I don't have time to look into it right now, and knowing our members, someone will find it before I can anyway

 

[robby denning]

It used to be that guys took trips out west every couple years. Now that the economy is doing good everyone wants to go out every year. This is hard on acquiring tags and having lots of animals to hunt. When the economy tanks again one day the hunting will return to normal.

Well, when it tanked in 2008, I didn't notice a noticable improvement in draw hunts in the states I was applying in. Small sample size for sure, but odds got worse in the deer hunts for me.

 

[cbeck36]

Which particular flat brim cap area are you talking about?

Exactly.

 

[jspradley]

Overall detrimental to hunting? Yes.

Destroying hunting? No.

However, getting more people into hunting is good for hunting, even if it makes folks have to work a little harder.

 

[elkyinzer]

I think this is a very important discussion and a great thread. I’m just going to leave a few disjointed thoughts:

1. Privatization of wildlife will be the demise of the NA Model. We are a runaway train heading back toward the Euro model. The Midwest is basically there already with leasing and little public land. Those of us being crowded on public are seeing the consequences of that. 150 years ago conservationist came together to stop market meat hunting. It’s time we come together to stop market trophy hunting. There should not be exorbitant price tags on animals’ heads, regardless of what horns or antlers they carry. I don’t think realistically at this point we can stop the runaway train. I’ll always hunt but the NA Model as it was conceived is dead.
2. Regarding demographics that state agencies and the industry spout, it doesn’t take a genius to interpret the hard data. Loss in absolute number of hunters and licenses sold, yes. But we’ve lost a generation of many casual hunters. PA had hundreds of thousands of hunters that basically hunted 1-3 days a year. That’s a dying breed to which I say good riddance. Remaining hunters are more avid than ever. It’s become a defining trait in peoples very personas. That was nearly unthinkable a couple generations back. The economics of that at the state agency level will cause some bumps and tough financial calculus, but the demographic changes pose zero threat to hunting whatsoever.
3. Social media is annoying as hell and I dearly hope in 10 years all these self-promoting egoturds are so embarrassed they go live in caves. But I don’t think it has any real effect. Just stop enabling them and quit social media. People have always have egos and will for ever. Fred Bear was a huge self-promoter, guy would be flat out intolerable if he were alive in todays day and age with social media.
4. Mapping tech and GPS are huge factors contributing to public crowding. It is just worlds easier to DIY out of state than it was 30 years ago. You had to really know your stuff to gather the resources now any dimwit with a smartphone and a thumb can do it sitting on the john.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

I don't think it's destroying hunting. I like all the crap that's come out in recent years. From better tackle to apparel to GPS...books, podcasts, websites et al have helped me quite a bit I believe. Ironically, I've come full circle in certain instances, example: thought I needed an uber light weight rifle of carbon fiber and titanium and bought one and filled tags with it but now it's gone and I'm just as hunky dory as I've ever been with a blued walnut 270. My only concern with the new hunters entering the mountains every year has more to do with safety pertaining to firearms and related matters.

I can however relate to all the Fudd's out there bemoaning the loss of "their" spot as that's been my experience as well, but that just means more hunting - hunting for new country to hunt in. Moreover, routine exposure to programs like Meateater have had the double benefit of getting me interested in hunting new species and my wife (who is very supportive but a non-hunter) has taken a keen interest in the trips and cooking game meat.

Guarantee in the 60's fellas were sitting around belly aching about these damn new scopes and how crappy they were and that nobody took marksmanship seriously anymore and the chase would be ruined. IMHO nothing that can be purchased is going to take the pain and regret of a poor decision away. New hunters need to be well versed in the highs and lows of chasing game, the only way to get that experience is to get out there and do it.

 

[Lawnboi]

Marketing no.

Over monetization, yes.

I don’t think any high fence outfits help at all either. Not that I consider high fence outfits hunting, but it’s portrayed that way.


I hope the day doesn’t come that I can’t afford or find a place to hunt.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

[*]Privatization of wildlife will be the demise of the NA Model. We are a runaway train heading back toward the Euro model. The Midwest is basically there already with leasing and little public land. Those of us being crowded on public are seeing the consequences of that. 150 years ago conservationist came together to stop market meat hunting. It’s time we come together to stop market trophy hunting. There should not be exorbitant price tags on animals’ heads, regardless of what horns or antlers they carry. I don’t think realistically at this point we can stop the runaway train. I’ll always hunt but the NA Model as it was conceived is dead.
[/LIST]

Thanks for this, I’ve been trying to articulate this for some time now and you did a great job.




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[Akwoodchuck]

Pretty sure hunters have been glorifying themselves at least since the invention of cave paint, and probably long before that!

....also important to remember that hunting really is all about the fashion LOL:

 

[NDGuy]

Pretty sure hunters have been glorifying themselves at least since the invention of cave paint, and probably long before that!

....also important to remember that hunting really is all about the fashion LOL:

I wonder if Teddy were alive today if he would wear Verde, Fusion, or Open Country?

 

[sneaky]

I think this is a very important discussion and a great thread. I’m just going to leave a few disjointed thoughts:

1. Privatization of wildlife will be the demise of the NA Model. We are a runaway train heading back toward the Euro model. The Midwest is basically there already with leasing and little public land. Those of us being crowded on public are seeing the consequences of that. 150 years ago conservationist came together to stop market meat hunting. It’s time we come together to stop market trophy hunting. There should not be exorbitant price tags on animals’ heads, regardless of what horns or antlers they carry. I don’t think realistically at this point we can stop the runaway train. I’ll always hunt but the NA Model as it was conceived is dead.
2. Regarding demographics that state agencies and the industry spout, it doesn’t take a genius to interpret the hard data. Loss in absolute number of hunters and licenses sold, yes. But we’ve lost a generation of many casual hunters. PA had hundreds of thousands of hunters that basically hunted 1-3 days a year. That’s a dying breed to which I say good riddance. Remaining hunters are more avid than ever. It’s become a defining trait in peoples very personas. That was nearly unthinkable a couple generations back. The economics of that at the state agency level will cause some bumps and tough financial calculus, but the demographic changes pose zero threat to hunting whatsoever.
3. Social media is annoying as hell and I dearly hope in 10 years all these self-promoting egoturds are so embarrassed they go live in caves. But I don’t think it has any real effect. Just stop enabling them and quit social media. People have always have egos and will for ever. Fred Bear was a huge self-promoter, guy would be flat out intolerable if he were alive in todays day and age with social media.
4. Mapping tech and GPS are huge factors contributing to public crowding. It is just worlds easier to DIY out of state than it was 30 years ago. You had to really know your stuff to gather the resources now any dimwit with a smartphone and a thumb can do it sitting on the john.

Those hundreds of thousands who only hunted a couple days a year still bought licenses and tags and supported the wildlife conservation in the state. That's a stupid remark about good riddance. Not everyone wants their licenses to go up because the hunter base is gone.

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[elkyinzer]

Those hundreds of thousands who only hunted a couple days a year still bought licenses and tags and supported the wildlife conservation in the state. That's a stupid remark about good riddance. Not everyone wants their licenses to go up because the hunter base is gone.

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Not meant to be a trigger or personal insult to that group, it's just a cold hard fact we're not getting that demographic back and they are the reason for this so called massive decline in participation. The panic over declining numbers and RRR campaigns are pissing into the wind. Roll with the budget forecasts and make the necessary cuts and license increases you have to and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[S.Clancy]

Everyone talks about "more focused, driven hunters" etc, but have harvest statistics changed at all...not from what I've seen. Outside of bow opener, I hardly see anyone out in the woods where I am. Last year the only other hunters we ran into were either, 1) in bow season during nice weather, or 2) on the roads. I think that hunters are just more concentrated around certain areas, thanks GoHunt.

 

[bluetick78]

In all seriousness I am much more concerned about the loss of hunt-able land and the commercialization of game vs the product and marketing. I don't care about the amount of people hunting per say vs the loss of available places to hunt. This will eventually drive everyone out of the game in which case there will not be any support for legislation to support habitat and conservation.

The other thing that drives me nuts is the "Who cares I got mine attitude". All of the problems with hunting and politics we are facing can't just be solved by sucking it up and working harder to hunt. That's not some fix all approach, we need to be active in our voices and wallets in supporting those with a bigger voice and do the right thing.

Otherwise everything will be chipped and whittled away at until there's nothing left to hunt besides pay to play ranches.

You nailed it NDGuy. The FB/Insta/podcast world has led more hunters to the Western hunting arena, that's for sure. But these new hunters are far from the biggest problems we face today. The Idaho House voted on 3 bills yesterday that would set the stage for wealthy individuals and private companies to begin a slow, tactful takeover of Idaho's public lands. One bill is seeking to limit the amount of public land to the acreage we now have, i.e., no net gains on public land. If an entity wants to sell or donate a section of private land back into public, then an equal amount of public must be privatized....in the same county! Another bill seeks to withdraw current "Wilderness Study" protections from land that is being vetted as future Wilderness. Our elected thieves are in the process of setting the stage for a large scale takeover of public land in one of the most popular Western hunting states. Suprisingly, I didn't see a word uttered about this on Rokslide. A quick look at BHA'S website came up empty, as did RMEF'S. Idaho Wildlife Federation seemed to be the only ones interested in this issue. So as we all go on lamenting that 4 NR'S found "our" spot on ONX, try to take one big step back to realize that our lawmakers want to take away everyone's "spot" and sell it to private entities. Where will we be then?
Let's pull our heads out, band together, and deal with the real issues. Not worry about the elk that some 'roided up podcast brand-whore killed on a private ranch to sell to us as #OtcDIYorganicgroceriessickforit.

 

[robby denning]

Y... I didn't see a word uttered about this on Rokslide. A quick look at BHA'S website came up empty, as did RMEF'S. Idaho Wildlife Federation seemed to be the only ones interested in this issue.

I live here and hadn't heard about this. thanks for bringing it up.

 

[JWP58]

Another bill seeks to withdraw current "Wilderness Study" protections from land that is being vetted as future Wilderness..

I am all for wilderness areas (what I mostly hunt during big game seasons); however how long does it take to be "vetted"? For example there are 39 WSA's in Wyoming. Most (if not all) have been in the process of being "vetted" for decades. Either designate them wilderness or not. There should be a detailed timeline required to go from wsa to wilderness.