Is the 6.8 western gaining traction or did the 7mm prc finish it off?

[Lou270]

Get yourselves on list for 6.8W ADG brass. Only way they will make it is if we buy it. Prefer them or not the PRCs sell so I see why manufacturers jumped on them.

Lou

 

[Gila]

Would be interesting to get some sales data for the 6.8 Western Rifles. Hard to quantify for pre-fits or custom barrels though. Looks like we are getting some traction for some premium brass. The ammo selection is good, the bullet selection is good. Things are looking up for the 6.8 Western.

 

[Gila]

Thats just as ridiculous as you continuing to say it wont work in a Tikka action

Never said anything of the sort…putting words in my mouth and this is not the first time. Not the first time that you troll my posts either.

 

[Lou270]

Would be interesting to get some sales data for the 6.8 Western Rifles. Hard to quantify for pre-fits or custom barrels though. Looks like we are getting some traction for some premium brass. The ammo selection is good, the bullet selection is good. Things are looking up for the 6.8 Western.

Agree, but I am not concerned. The 6:8W will do fine and Winchester will support it even if no one else does. There are 325 wsm rifles and ammo in stock right now for Pete’s sake. There was 270 wsm ammo at Cabelas the other day. Not knocking Hornady but their support is exagerrated and Winchester poo pooed by fanboys. Simply not true. Find some 300 rcm, 338 rcm, 30 tc, 308 marlin, 338’marlin new rifles and ammo. Some of the stuff Hornady introduced since 2000 was so bad people dont remember it and Hornady doesn’t support it. There are several more, totalllng well more than few WSM/wssms. Hornady has been throwing darts. The fact the 6.5 cm took off was a happy accident not some long planned stroke of genius. Hornady ran with it and good for them.

Any case The ability for people to predict what is going to do well is moot. The cartridge list is littered with rounds that were on fire for a few years and petered out and rounds that lingered for a while then took off. None of us, no matter how smart we think we are, can predict it. The more folks insist it black/white have not been around long enough or really looked at cartridge history. Anyway If somebody is worried, stock up to make yourself feel better. Better yet, learn to handload and you can make anything shoot

Lou

 

[bmart2622]

Never said anything of the sort…putting words in my mouth and this is not the first time. Not the first time that you troll my posts either.

Ok bud!!! Correcting you when you are wrong, which is often, isnt trolling

 

[Formidilosus]

I would like to point out that since the Korean War the military has adopted the 7.62 NATO, the 5.56 NATO and now the 6.8 NATO.

Do you purposely look to be factually incorrect in what you post? Since the Korean War- the US mil has adopted 7.62mm, 5.56mm, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, 300 Blackout, 300 Norma, and 338 Norma, along with some smaller procurements of a couple others- 260 rem, 300PRC, 6 ARC, etc. The Army is still testing the 6.8x51mm- which has not been adopted- which means full fielding, by any branch yet.

 

[Formidilosus]

Simply not true. Find some 300 rcm, 338 rcm, 30 tc, 308 marlin, 338’marlin new rifles and ammo.

You named “hunting” rounds. New introduced, well designed cartridges that are primarily aimed at hunters, don’t do well and haven’t for a long time.

 

[JollyRoger]

Is the 6.8/277 Fury officially adopted?

It wasn’t that long ago many were convinced the US military was going to switch over to 6.8 SPC. All sorts of articles were flying around, guys on various forums were excited for it, building rifles, etc.

…. And it ended up going nowhere basically.

Same for widespread adoption of the SCAR rifles. Lots of excitement, and outside of a few groups, it went nowhere too.

I guess I’ll believe it when it starts getting issued to regular units.

 

[Gila]

Is the 6.8/277 Fury officially adopted?

It wasn’t that long ago many were convinced the US military was going to switch over to 6.8 SPC. All sorts of articles were flying around, guys on various forums were excited for it, building rifles, etc.

…. And it ended up going nowhere basically.

Same for widespread adoption of the SCAR rifles. Lots of excitement, and outside of a few groups, it went nowhere too.

I guess I’ll believe it when it starts getting issued to regular units.

Absolutely! They are producing the light squad weapons as I write this. i don’t know if they have deployed any yet though. The first weapons are light machine guns M250. Kinda cool you can take off your ammo belt and feed it. They are also making conversion kits for the M240.

 

[tt280AI]

I haven't personally come across anyone owning or looking to buy the 6.8

 

[Gila]

This is like over 2 years ago:

“Olin-Winchester announced this week it was awarded a new Pentagon contract to complete a manufacturing study in support of the Army's new Next Generation Squad Weapon program.

The $9 million contract is for tracer projectile production for the new 6.8mm caliber Common Cartridge Family of Ammunition that will be used by NGSW platforms. The work will be done at the Winchester-run Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Missouri. This comes just 10 months after a previous $20 million contract for Winchester to plan production of 6.8mm ammo types at Lake City.

The ammo plant is the country's main federal small arms ammo factory, making assorted 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, and .50 caliber BMG rounds and has been run by Winchester since 2020. The award comes at a time when the Army is embarking on an ambitious ammunition plant modernization program at its six government-owned, contractor-operated installations.“

Winchester Lands Army Next Gen Ammo Contract :: Guns.com

Olin-Winchester announced this week it was awarded a new Pentagon contract to complete a manufacturing study in support of the Army's new Next Generation Squad Weapon program.

www.guns.com

 

[Lou270]

You named “hunting” rounds. New introduced, well designed cartridges that are primarily aimed at hunters, don’t do well and haven’t for a long time.

Well, the point was to contridict the message that Hornady supports their rounds better than Winchester or has a better track record. I’m not saying either do a great job but Hornady is certainly not better.

There were 16.7M hunters in the US at peak in 1982 and that number is around 15.7M now. So, yes numbers are down and slowly declining (except for uptick in Covid)but
it is not like half or 25% or whatever you are inferring. The reality is the majority of hunter use traditional cartridges like 308, 270, 30-06, 243 and now 6.5 creed. The 300 Win got quite popular in last decade thanks to Chris Kyle

New rounds come along like the stw, rum, wsm, msr, prc, whatever and are popular for a while but end up getting wind knocked out of them by next latest greatest before they can get anywhere near the volume of the old standbys. This new stuff is bought by what industry calls “churners”. These are folks that buy the latest greatest and generate profit margin. The classic churners are the guys that sale their latest build that just finished without shooting it cause something new came while waiting for current build. The churners are buying PRC right now. The other thing churners are buying are rifles with fancy cerakote colors and patterns. Look how fancy even the cheap guns look these days. The old stand bys may not lead in new rifle sales but they always do ok because of ammo availability and cost, not to mention Uncle Fudd or dad used one

Lou

PS. The churners term is from articles from John Barsness where he interviewed people in the ammo business. I did not come up with it nor am I in that business.

 

[Formidilosus]

This is like over 2 years ago:

“Olin-Winchester announced this week it was awarded a new Pentagon contract to complete a manufacturing study in support of the Army's new Next Generation Squad Weapon program.

Its almost like it was a “manufacturing study”

The $9 million contract is for tracer projectile production for the new 6.8mm caliber Common Cartridge Family of Ammunition that will be used by NGSW platforms. The work will be done at the Winchester-run Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Missouri. This comes just 10 months after a previous $20 million contract for Winchester to plan production of 6.8mm ammo types at Lake City.

The ammo plant is the country's main federal small arms ammo factory, making assorted 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, and .50 caliber BMG rounds and has been run by Winchester since 2020. The award comes at a time when the Army is embarking on an ambitious ammunition plant modernization program at its six government-owned, contractor-operated installations.“

Winchester Lands Army Next Gen Ammo Contract :: Guns.com

Olin-Winchester announced this week it was awarded a new Pentagon contract to complete a manufacturing study in support of the Army's new Next Generation Squad Weapon program.

www.guns.com

Far be it from me to try and stop you, but sticking with subjects you actually know about would be better.

 

[Gila]

Its almost like it was a “manufacturing study”






Far be it from me to try and stop you, but sticking with subjects you actually know about would be better.

That is an old article. Winchester is already producing the ammo. The 101st airborne has the M7 and the M250:

Army to field new rifle, machine gun and optic in 2024

Soldiers with the 101st Airborne Division will be the first to field the new weapons and optics.

www.armytimes.com

 

[Formidilosus]

That is an old article. Winchester is already producing the ammo. The 101st airborne has the M7 and the M250:

Army to field new rifle, machine gun and optic in 2024

Soldiers with the 101st Airborne Division will be the first to field the new weapons and optics.

www.armytimes.com

No. The 101st was apart of what amount to first article field testing.

 

[bmart2622]

Its almost like it was a “manufacturing study”






Far be it from me to try and stop you, but sticking with subjects you actually know about would be better.

He wouldn't have anything to talk about if he did that

 

[Gila]

No. The 101st was apart of what amount to first article field testing.

NO….The field testing is over with and the weapons are being deployed in April.

 

[sneaky]

There's so much you're saying here that's reasonable and that I agree with, especially in terms of the cultures of these companies.

But to say that "shooters" buy more ammo than hunters is just not even remotely accurate. It just isn't, not even close.

Now, per person, shooters vs your average hunter? Sure, you're totally right. I shoot more centerfire rifle ammo in a few months than my dad or grandfather did in their entire lifetimes. But as a market segment, hunters absolutely swamp "shooters" by at least a full order of magnitude in ammo sales - it's not even in the same universe. Last year alone, Texas issued over 1.8 million hunting licenses, tags, etc, and Wisconsin issued over 4 million.

USPSA doesn't even have 40,000 shooters in the entire country. PRS has about 6000 total.

So even if Bubba's only buying 2 boxes of good ol' Core-Lokt for the trusty '06 each season, I guarantee you there aren't 400,000 "shooters" in any combination of competition circuits in Wisconsin buying 8 million boxes of match ammo there each year. That's just hunting rifle ammo. When you add in small game, upland birds, and waterfowl, the ammo purchased by hunters is likely an additional full order of magnitude greater or more. The numbers are absolutely insane.

This isn't to detract from your points about the differences in cultures of Hornady vs Winchester, et al, and why the shooting culture at Hornady is likely driving a huge part of their innovation and success. But it's Bubba that has kept Big Green, Winchester, etc alive, and why they don't seem to even try to innovate.

If you want to get an idea of just how massive the hunting ammo market is over "shooters", take a listen to Seth at about the 1:30 mark here - for almost a decade, .450 Bushmaster has been in the top 5 of Hornady's rifle ammo sales.

I suspect 30-06 is quite a bit higher in the top 5, and we all know that's not a round "shooters" are burning up barrels with.

450 Bushmaster is only relevant because of the hordes of whitetail hunters in states with straight wall cartridge restrictions. Without those restrictions, the 450 wouldn't be a blip in sales.

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[Grundy53]

450 Bushmaster is only relevant because of the hordes of whitetail hunters in states with straight wall cartridge restrictions. Without those restrictions, the 450 wouldn't be a blip in sales.

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I think that was his point

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[sneaky]

Tikka will most likely offer the 280AI before the 7 PRC. I seriously doubt Tikka will offer either one though. Hand loaders tend to load those two cartridges “long” which won’t fit into the standard Tikka magazines. There are so many rifles chambered in 6.8 Western now: Winchester, Browning, Fierce, Christiansen Arms, Seekins. I doubt that Savage, Ruger or Tikka could pull very much of of that market share at this time. If the 6.8 Western continues to take off, Tikka could chamber for it, but I think that would be years away if it does happen.

Currently, the number of factory ammo offerings are the same between the 6.8 Western and the 7 PRC. The 7 PRC is a long action cartridge which is a disadvantage. The 6.8 Western is a short action cartridge. The 280 AI is gaining even more traction. The 7 Rem Mag has been at the top. Both of those long action 7s are tough acts to follow in a production rifle. The 6.8 Western fills a “niche”. The 7 PRC does not. The 6.8 Western fills the niche as a short action cartridge with magnum performance and lower recoil. My opinion is that the 7 PRC will eventually be right along side the 28 Nosler. But hey what ever blows your socks off.

I hope you drank at least 3 glasses of water after those mental gymnastics defending the 6.8 Western.

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