is it my scope or loads? 98% good, 2% fail @ 100 yards

[GSPHUNTER]

I have a friend who has very similar problems, Nice groups, two three shot groups in a row, then not even on paper at 100 yards. He does this over and over. Every time, it come down to him flinching or jerking the trigger. I watch him do it. He doesn't even know he is doing it, but he most certainly is. Put a deer or Elkk in his scope and you have a dead animal ever time. Something to think about.

 

[CamaroMan]

What was done to sight them in? Is there a range there?

Would have thought so but clearly not- like i said we didnt have time to check the guns - i shot at 30 yards when we got to the hunting grounds and it looked close enough but after missing that deer i realized how bad it was.

Last trip we were doing good with a 2" group at 100 yards semi standing.. then the last 2 missed the target at 50 - very odd random misses 2% of the time.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

the vx3 is at least as bad as your diamondback.

are you shooting off a lead sled? cause if so we can be nearly certain that you have in fact broken that scope.

here's a place to learn anything you'd ever like to know about scopes that work, and ones that don't:

Rifle Scope Field Evaluations

rokslide.com

 

[Antares]

I have inexpensive Bushnell bore sighter that mounts into the muzzle of various rifles by using different expandable rods base on the Cal. of the weapon you are using it and projects a crosshair target when you view it through your scope, it shows graduation for elevation and windage, while looking through the scope you make adjustments until the reticle on your scope matches the crosshairs on bore sighter. It will put you within a few inches of bullseye at 100 yards, then you can adjust from there. I do not like laser bore sighters.

What’s your point?

I said boresighted does not equal zeroed. Do you disagree?

OP said Cabelas got him within 5” and you’re saying your method gets you “within a few inches.”

 

[GSPHUNTER]

hi western duck - thanks for the tips. I grew up shooting all kinds of things.. i certainly dont flinch - ive shot 150 rounds thru this rifle, and fwiw the loads are alot softer than the box ammo- not sure if thats the powder or neck tension etc but at 100 yards there shouldnt be much difference. anyway its certainly not me flinching at all i can guarantee you that.

We shoot off steady rests with lots of support so movement is tiny - why everyone is assuming im super incapable here is quite interesting. Im fairly new to reloading and was wondering if that might have been a factor. Ill just ignore all the people making fun of me i really dont care -

Thanks for the tips though at least you came across as a gentleman. Too much moonshiners in here clearly who dole over their superior knowledge.

My comm skills must suck to throw so many ppl way off target lol .. anwyay it is what it is.

WIll call cabellas and look at upgrading to a leupold vx3 hopefully my random issues will be gone..

Reloading is a science, it needs to be very precise time after time, a slight variance in powder charge or bullet depth can make a big difference. I am not talking from personal experience, but my friend has been reloading everything for over 50 years. He is anal about his accuracy when it comes to reloading and has impressed upon me how important it is. It takes time and experience to get it right every time.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

What’s your point?

I said boresighted does not equal zeroed. Do you disagree?

OP said Cabelas got him within 5” and you’re saying your method gets you “within a few inches.”

Just saying a good job of bore sighting will get close enough to be able to see what adjustments you need to make. Bore sighting absolutely does not equal zero. I did not read every post, so I missed where he mentioned the 5 " part.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Would have thought so but clearly not- like i said we didnt have time to check the guns - i shot at 30 yards when we got to the hunting grounds and it looked close enough but after missing that deer i realized how bad it was.

Last trip we were doing good with a 2" group at 100 yards semi standing.. then the last 2 missed the target at 50 - very odd random misses 2% of the time.

The fact you never personally confirmed your zero and went hunting with it says a lot. It’s no wonder people are on you like they are, and you’re taking it offensively. If you don’t have time, take the time and miss the hunt to make it right.

At this point, I would say you are in fact flinching. I would also guess since you dropped the rifles off to cabelas, the guy that set your rifle didn’t take the pains you personally would to make sure it’s right. You could have a base that’s loose, ring that’s loose, scope that’s crapped out, action screws are loose. Who knows. I don’t care how much you work, you owe it the animals you hunt to make sure your equipment is ready to go. If it takes you multiple trips to the range to confirm your zero on your rifle you need to reevaluate your process. If you don’t have time, funds, or whatever other excuse you can think of to not problem shoot your equipment, sit the season out and fix it. Lots of people are trying to make sense of your issue, while trying to help you out, but your feelings are getting hurt. There’s a reason they’re being harsh.

 

[Westernduck]

hi western duck - thanks for the tips. I grew up shooting all kinds of things.. i certainly dont flinch - ive shot 150 rounds thru this rifle, and fwiw the loads are alot softer than the box ammo- not sure if thats the powder or neck tension etc but at 100 yards there shouldnt be much difference. anyway its certainly not me flinching at all i can guarantee you that.

We shoot off steady rests with lots of support so movement is tiny - why everyone is assuming im super incapable here is quite interesting. Im fairly new to reloading and was wondering if that might have been a factor. Ill just ignore all the people making fun of me i really dont care -

Thanks for the tips though at least you came across as a gentleman. Too much moonshiners in here clearly who dole over their superior knowledge.

My comm skills must suck to throw so many ppl way off target lol .. anwyay it is what it is.

WIll call cabellas and look at upgrading to a leupold vx3 hopefully my random issues will be gone..

No problem dude. Just trying to be helpful. I stand by my opinion of shooter error though and I don’t mean that as an insult. I’ve struggled with it before if I hadn’t shot often enough and I’ve been shooting since I was a kid too. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

You said you’re an engine builder so we probably think the same, I’m a diesel mechanic. Let me try to give an analogy- if your wife came to you and said she thinks her car has an issue. What do you do? I’d go out and inspect it in the driveway(inspecting the rifle at home). Then I’d take it for a test drive if I didn’t find anything(going out shooting) to try and replicate the problem. I wouldn’t just buy parts and guess.

Whatever the problem is you want to address it before hunting again. You owe it to the animal to be 100 percent confident that you can kill it ethically. And to be honest you don’t sound that confident, which is why others are hazing you.

I hope you get everything figured out though and stick around. This is a pretty cool and informative site.

 

[Dawg In Montana]

I think people are being pretty pointed because of a few things. You don’t seem to respect the animals enough to make sure you and your equipment can give them a humane kill, you don’t seem to respect those around you (you drive somewhere to use a free range and shoot up signs around there), and you are pushing back on suggestions and comments unless they are centered around equipment error.

If your next few shots are on target, that would point to user error. If they are still several feet off, that points to a probable scope issue, or smaller chance of a rifle issue. Either way, one of those two is pretty messed up and needs fixing.

 

[Pharmseller]

So you had some guy at Cabelas bore sight your rifles and you figured that was good enough to go hunting?

I afraid I can’t help you.




P

 

[The Guide]

So you had some guy at Cabelas bore sight your rifles and you figured that was good enough to go hunting?

I afraid I can’t help you.




P

Maybe there's a market we aren't taking advantage of? There's a fairly new song where the singer talks about how he "has a guy for that". Maybe I could be the rifle sighter in guy for that! Paid to shoot other people's guns for them. Man, what a life.

Jay

 

[Jason Snyder]

Primarily trying to root out if a bad load could cause anomalies like this

No.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

fwiw i calibrate my scale and have my LEE setup the same for all these loads.. 58 grains is on the entry level for this powder far as ive seen.

For 200 yard shooting, a volume load will be as accurate as a weighed load. Giving proper brass prep is followed.


Are you shooting brass from the same lot? Have you weighed your brass. Are you shooting quickly? Or, letting the barrel cool slightly?

I think you could dump 25 grains of any rifle powder in a round and still hit a pie plate with a gun sighted with hunting ammo. As long as it doesn’t blow up. lol.

I truly don’t know but, it’d have to be an extreme difference in pressure to cause that difference in poa.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

My goodness. Ok i get it might not make sense but I was reloading as a hobby, we bought our guns RIGHT before seasona nd did not have chance to shoot them, hence why i missed horribly at 100 yards. The guns were sighted at cabellas initially by a very old man with bad eye sight.

After that ordeal we took it to the desert and I started shooting my loads which i did as a hobby - and compared to 2 boxes of store ammo, both yielded similar results - our initial correction on the scopes was literally 20 or more clicks out, it was so bad we couldnt believe it. OVer the few trips weve dialed them in a little here and there - and the rifles have performed well, except for the oddball critter here and there - that makes NO SENSE hence this post.

Reloading is doable which I can do after work on the kitchen table versus having to plan a whole 2 day trip into no mans land to get to a place where we can safely shoot miles and miles away from any other humans.

The scope I mounted here as well with my torque wrench and loctite- so that should explain that.

Thirdly -

Why would you hunt with a rifle that some dude at Cabela’s “sighted in” for you? It seems absolutely insane to just pick up a rifle from Cabela’s of all places that was sighted in by some random dude then just go straight out and hunt.

Go to a shooting range and get sighted in at 100, heck find an indoor range and get sighted in at 50, that would be much better than doing what you did.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

OP. Genuine question here…

Are you serious with this thread and posts within or are you pulling folks legs here?

 

[CamaroMan]

No problem dude. Just trying to be helpful. I stand by my opinion of shooter error though and I don’t mean that as an insult. I’ve struggled with it before if I hadn’t shot often enough and I’ve been shooting since I was a kid too. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

You said you’re an engine builder so we probably think the same, I’m a diesel mechanic. Let me try to give an analogy- if your wife came to you and said she thinks her car has an issue. What do you do? I’d go out and inspect it in the driveway(inspecting the rifle at home). Then I’d take it for a test drive if I didn’t find anything(going out shooting) to try and replicate the problem. I wouldn’t just buy parts and guess.

Whatever the problem is you want to address it before hunting again. You owe it to the animal to be 100 percent confident that you can kill it ethically. And to be honest you don’t sound that confident, which is why others are hazing you.

I hope you get everything figured out though and stick around. This is a pretty cool and informative site.

yeah i get it - but man ive been shooting since i was 5 and we had a bunch of successful rounds thru the rifle in a few trips - i cannot see myself flinching twice in a row on my own rifle - im so darn comfy with it.. im not new to shooting at all, grew up on a farm. nuff said there.

its the scopes and reloading im trying to carve out- i think a bunch of readers misread me explaining how far out my rifle was/missing a deer @ 100 as being my shooting skills - its not i can guarantee you. So everyones treating me like mr 1st time shooter which is far from the case and to be honest its super annoying really - -and not helping the real issue which is either loads or scope. Another forum I was on asking about specific info regarding lathe work one guy wrote paragraph after paragraph tutoring me on how to use a dial caliper - for petes sake thats after I told him I machine my own blocks, but he stayed stuck on the fact that i clearly didnt know jack - same thing. LIterally comical how many ppl think everyone else is a super dumb a$$ and cant let go. dam I calibrate all my measuring gear on gauge blocks down to the tenth almost.. 'like beating a dead horse.

What 90% of ppl on this thread miss is that i can fire 20-30 rounds over a weekend just fine - every now and then some random shot (very very few) will be way off - and then itll be back to business. for me thats a head scratcher.. leaning more towards loads/used cartridges maybe or neck tension on the loads.

Anyway - i keep screwing around, and yes i want it sorted before hunting, thats why ive been thru so many rounds to figure out what the hell is going on.

 

[CamaroMan]

Why would you hunt with a rifle that some dude at Cabela’s “sighted in” for you? It seems absolutely insane to just pick up a rifle from Cabela’s of all places that was sighted in by some random dude then just go straight out and hunt.

Go to a shooting range and get sighted in at 100, heck find an indoor range and get sighted in at 50, that would be much better than doing what you did.

Once again - i had NO CHANCE to test it properly so kinda winged it. im done carrying on about this. its off topic. Weve been to the desert a few times and sighted them in properly after that- but every now and then, a round or two wd be wierd, then everythings fine again- 3-4" group at 100 is just fine for my needs.

And yes we shoot of a very steady rest off the back of my truck so theres almost zero movement.

 

[CamaroMan]

OP. Genuine question here…

Are you serious with this thread and posts within or are you pulling folks legs here?

r u kidding me? im dead frikkin serious man. half the ppl here arent even reading the dam posts.. the continual assumptin that im stupid or a total noob is ridiculous. its comical -

Lets have some ppl fire 40 rounds and suddenly have one or 2 be way off, then have it come back together on the same gun same shooter off a dead rest and see how that goes.

its not so clear cut. I dont need lectures on why i did what i did when i did it, or how to find a firing range, or why i should have bla bla - there were unique circumstances on my first hunting trip in this country why we went with new rifles that were only bore sighted. I have since been reloading and verifying consistentcy in the desert.

Alas - another keyboard warrior had to fill the post with more lectures on how I can afford to reload but not drive 4 hours round trip to safely go shoot my own rifles somewhere - its RIDICULOUS.

The only topic i really care to discuss is if reloading can cause super weird random issues or not (and possibly what aspect)- and how i can tell if its a scope thing without having to go buy another scope or have to fire off another 40 rounds to figure whats going on. Im very glad some ppl sight their rifles in 3 shots- not mine. Its doing fine 99% of the time, until that one weird one comes along and thats what im trying to chase down cos murphies law ill be spot on my next deer and the same dam thing will happen -

Might have to start marking my shells and making real specific notes when i go thru this again. Could a bad casing cause this?

I am NOT very experienced at reloading at all - hence the questions but I am very certain of the consistency of my rounds and powder measures. I dont sit here playing video games when I reload, its a serious thing and ve done about 300 rounds now so pretty comfortable with it.

 

[CamaroMan]

anyway thanks for those very few who actually provided some helpful info - im done here and will continue research elsewhere on a reloading forum. Happy hunting this season and stay safe.

 

[CamaroMan]

For 200 yard shooting, a volume load will be as accurate as a weighed load. Giving proper brass prep is followed.


Are you shooting brass from the same lot? Have you weighed your brass. Are you shooting quickly? Or, letting the barrel cool slightly?

I think you could dump 25 grains of any rifle powder in a round and still hit a pie plate with a gun sighted with hunting ammo. As long as it doesn’t blow up. lol.

I truly don’t know but, it’d have to be an extreme difference in pressure to cause that difference in poa.

Hi - -thanks for a great set of questions. I initially weighed the brass but kinda stopped i just weight the powder and regularly check the scales calibration to make sure its right on and always place the cup centered.. Same brass yes - on 3rd reload on them.. like i mentioned to another person, the recoil on my loads is significantly less than factory which makes it alot easier on the wife, BUT thats sth i was going to try figure out if perhaps neck tension was a too little, using N160 powder at 56 grains which is about good imo for a 150gn bullet, who knows i only started loading last 3 years - i really dont have enough exp to back up any claims. When I did compare my loads to some hornady box ammo i got the same grouping which at least confirmed to me my loads werent doing too bad for a beginner (oh but some keyboard warrior had to jump on me and accuse me of shooting mixed loads lol, which is true but it was a controlled/comparison!!!!)

Not shooting quickly at all, do 3 shots - then a 5-10 min round trip walk to go inspect note analyze and tape up holes. Then id switch to wifes - so easy 20 mins between shots.

Could a bad shell cause this? induce a wobble in the bore or something?

Guns are 3 years old.

Thanks again for asking pointed questions - thats what ive been after. Almost gave up on this thread. Way too much bashing instead of smart questions imo... Might PM you to continue this conversation without all the usual nonsense. I really appreciate it.