Is it all Leopolds

[AZ_Hunter]

It looks to me like that scope is moving from shot to shot or the rifle/ammo combo is not great.

I think it’s me so far, need to shoot higher round count groups. Keep in mind the size of that bulls eye, it’s like an inch…, actually less. That’s about as good as I can see at 10x at 100 yards anyway.

ETA: Sorry, your comment is funny to me. Yes the scope is moving, along with the rifle, and the dude shooting it… folding table with sandbags, sitting on a folding chair, on raw desert uneven ground, shooting a 7.5lb rifle… yes! It’s moving. All of it. Haha.

 

[Marbles]

here is ultimate question. Those of you that decided to get rid of your leupolds. Did you sell them or give them away?

If you sold them, your integrity is gone.

Amusing progression.

If true, then the inverse must also be true, the person who bought the scope has no integrity because they took advantage of someone falsely believing the products are flawed..... Now it is starting to sound like buying and selling are not compatible with integrity.

Hell, perhaps giving them away is also an integrity violation and destructive disposal is the only acceptable course. Though, now we might be abligated to pass laws against them too.

Are we at the bottom yet?

 

[Marbles]

I think it’s me so far, need to shoot higher round count groups. Keep in mind the size of that bulls eye, it’s like an inch…, actually less. That’s about as good as I can see at 10x at 100 yards anyway.

ETA: Sorry, your comment is funny to me. Yes the scope is moving, along with the rifle, and the dude shooting it… folding table with sandbags, sitting on a folding chair, on raw desert uneven ground, shooting a 7.5lb rifle… yes! It’s moving. All of it. Haha.

I agree, while there is no base group size provided, 1.5 MOA is probably about the precision that can be expected of most hunting rifles. I would say, no evidence of a shift.

The first one Form tested also held (at least while I was following that), so quite possible you got a good one. I was trying to find one available with illumination until the second and third both failed, then decided I did not want to hazard it.

 

[Stickmark]

I sold my leopold to a man who knew they were not the best. My integrity survives.
He wanted to place it on a M70, for a classical-look build. I took a buck with it previously, pretty much where I aimed if recalling correctly.
I wanted to get a more robust system for backpack hunts.

 

[JackButler]

Lol. I can tell you don’t get out much. I now trust my gear 100%. No need to check zero unless I switch ammo lots(which rarely happens because I buy in bulk).

I also don’t need to trust pro shooters or elite military units, because I shoot enough to know what works and what doesn’t. That’s how you know for sure, not reading the internet(although that helps in narrowing down what gear to use).

You’re the one trusting random internet guys. While I do put some credence to match results and decades of elite Military unit choices, that was my actual initial point. My real world experience has been that leupold scopes are able to retain zero.

In the end everyone uses what they prefer, but I can guarantee you most aren’t that confident in their gear, or themselves. Otherwise threads like this would be very short.

Well you’re wrong about how much I get out, so maybe you’re wrong about leupold scopes being unable to hold zero. I’m sure plenty of guys shoot way more than me, but I shoot at least a thousand rounds a year from 600-1200 yards, and many more at shorter distances. I killed a 370” elk unguided a month ago. So while I’m not a professional shooting 20k rounds a year, I also get out plenty in real world to know what works.

 

[JackButler]

Just shoot it at the target and record where the first shot hits. Then, next time you take it out, do the same thing. After just a few trips to shoot, you will have a good idea if you can trust the scope.

This is only part of the equation though. If it’s all over the place on subsequent trips, is there an issue with rings? Does the shooter not know how to read wind? Etc…
At a minimum you’d need to swap in a different scope, repeat the same tests, and if that one was spot on then put the old scope back on, and do the test again. If it wouldn’t hold zero again, then yeah looking like that scope has a problem. And that’s a sample size of one so it wouldn’t mean that brand of scope doesn’t hold zero and is junk across the board. It just means you have a bad scope.

 

[BBob]

here is ultimate question. Those of you that decided to get rid of your leupolds. Did you sell them or give them away?

If you sold them, your integrity is gone.

I took the time to send each and every failed Leupold back to them to repair/check for failure. I sold them when they came back with full disclosure that they went to Leupold for issues/suspected issues. No one batted an eye purchasing one. Is my integrity gone or is it still okay?

 

[35WhelenAI]

Lol, in general don't make ass hat, openly assumptive, holier than thou comments if a person doesn't want or like somebody to come back at them.

 

[Cannonball]

I sold my leopold to a man who knew they were not the best. My integrity survives.
He wanted to place it on a M70, for a classical-look build. I took a buck with it previously, pretty much where I aimed if recalling correctly.
I wanted to get a more robust system for backpack hunts.

My first gun is a M70 featherweight that has a vari-x II on it. My Dads M70 supergrade has a Vari-X III. Both sit in the safe and the Seekins or Tikka with Trijicons go out in the field, but I kinda want to take the M70s out and shoot them now .

 

[JackButler]

Amusing progression.

If true, then the inverse must also be true, the person who bought the scope has no integrity because they took advantage of someone falsely believing the products are flawed..... Now it is starting to sound like buying and selling are not compatible with integrity.

Hell, perhaps giving them away is also an integrity violation and destructive disposal is the only acceptable course. Though, now we might be abligated to pass laws against them too.

Are we at the bottom yet?

Your logic does make sense if you are telling people the scope won’t hold zero when you sell it. Maybe you did that, but I can’t imagine anyone would pay much for a scope that you advertise as not holding zero.

 

[JackButler]

My first gun is a M70 featherweight has a vari-x II on it. My Dads M70 supergrade has a Vari-X III. Both sit in the safe and the Seekins or Tikka with Trijicons go out in the field, but I kinda want to take the M70s out and shoot them now .

I’m not saying you, but this thread is getting more bizarre every hour. A model 70 with a vari-x iii was/is a go to top shelf rig for a long time even among a ton of Alaskan outfitters I know and is what I used on both of my Alaska trips. Every client and guide on both of my trips had a vari-x iii. With grizzly hunting, your life can literally be on the line with your scope choice.

 

[JackButler]

I took the time to send each and every failed Leupold back to them to repair/check for failure. I sold them when they came back with full disclosure that they went to Leupold for issues/suspected issues. No one batted an eye purchasing one. Is my integrity gone or is it still okay?

Did you test them when they came back?

 

[Cannonball]

I’m not saying you, but this thread is getting more bizarre every hour.

After page 10 its a free-for-all

 

[Gobihawk]

I put a new Leopold 3x9 on my 270 Savage 26 years ago. Sighted it in then. Never touched the settings since. Still deer hunting with it. Still shooting deer in the neck.

 

[BBob]

Did you test them when they came back?

Nope. Straight to the auction block. None took long to sell.

 

[JackButler]

Nope. Straight to the auction block. None took long to sell.

So either you thought they would hold zero when the issue was rectified at the factory, or you knew they wouldn’t because leupold are junk and don’t hold zero?

 

[Billy Goat]

So either you thought they would hold zero when the issue was rectified at the factory, or you knew they wouldn’t because leupold are junk and don’t hold zero?

He came to the conclusion he didn't like Leupold, sold it to someone who did.

 

[Justin Crossley]

This is only part of the equation though. If it’s all over the place on subsequent trips, is there an issue with rings? Does the shooter not know how to read wind? Etc…
At a minimum you’d need to swap in a different scope, repeat the same tests, and if that one was spot on then put the old scope back on, and do the test again. If it wouldn’t hold zero again, then yeah looking like that scope has a problem. And that’s a sample size of one so it wouldn’t mean that brand of scope doesn’t hold zero and is junk across the board. It just means you have a bad scope.

You're correct. I was in a hurry, but should have posted a more complete response.

I was actually thinking about it later and realized he hadn't shot the rifle with a known-good scope, so we really have no idea if the bad groups are the rifle or something else.

As a side note, when I stopped using Leupold scopes, my groups became more consistent, and load development became really, really simple.

It does not matter to me if other people trust and use Leupold scopes on their rifles. I used them and liked them for years until I started actually checking zero and noting that it kept moving. I still like the company and the employees I've met. I still have many friends who shoot the Mark 5 on all their competition guns, and some of those guys are the absolute best at our sport. I have also seen many of them have problems, and they all check their zeros before every competition.

Last year, I zeroed my 6.5 CM built on a Tikka action with UM rings and an NX8 scope. I then tossed it in a drawer in my truck in a very thin rifle sleeve, along with another rifle, a couple of tripods, and other gear. I then drove from Washington and back for three matches in California, North Dakota, and Wyoming. I made the podium at all three but didn't adjust the scope once through all of that.

If I could trust Leopold scopes, I would use them because I get 50% off, but I can't, so I buy other scopes at retail with no discount whatsoever.

 

[BBob]

So either you thought they would hold zero when the issue was rectified at the factory, or you knew they wouldn’t because leupold are junk and don’t hold zero?

After mby two that went back I lost faith and didn’t want to deal with them anymore. As each failed and came back from Leupold they went away. I did not care to spend time using them anymore. I was not alone with those feelings around here. About that time Nightforce came to the states. The cost was hard to swallow but we started going that direction. A dealer friend rounded up enough of us to make up an order big enough to get dealer status and that was that. I and another friend still have our original Nightforce BR scopes from that order. They’ve never had issues. That NF BR is my test scope I’ll use with the scope checker to test a suspect scope.

Also: keep in mind I’ve stated many times I still have one that hasn’t failed yet. It’s an old MK 4 that came from Premier Reticles. They modified it with a reticle swap and I bought it new directly from them.

 

[BBob]

He came to the conclusion he didn't like Leupold, sold it to someone who did.

Exactly!!!