Is it all Leopolds

[hibernation]

Is this “truthful” enough?

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For what it's worth, I sent one back that kept showing impact shifts and they gave it a clean bill of health. Digging into some of their definitions was interesting. The way they define failures during their "impact testing" has nothing to do with zero retention, it's strictly about functionality.

If a scope goes through their impact/torture testing and physically functions properly at the end, meaning it's intact and the turrets still work, that's a pass. They don't evaluate or even look for changes in POI during the test, just pure functionality at the end.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I wouldn’t call it a moot point. If you can’t see your target, it’s hard to hit it. Where do we draw the line on accepting unacceptable quality at price points?

Well with any ATACR you wouldn't have issues finding game animals.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Ah, ya reticles matter. But, there's no such thing as a FFP, or SFP fixed power scope.

Correct. I throw that in there as a default for a spec so many times it's habit haha!

 

[Macintosh]

@hibernation, Yep. In the case I posted they actually said something was wrong.

Numbers be damned, my personal failure rate is 3 out of 4, or a 75% failure rate. People can nitpick sample size or decide Im not being truthful because it doesnt match their experience or “all those scopes cant be wrong” all they want. What kind of margin for error donyou want? A 200% margin for error in leupolds favor would still be a 15% failure rate. Who here would be happy with a legit 15% failure rate? Are other brands crappy at a high rate too? Maybe. Im sure many are. Its just odd to me that people simply dismiss the folks that have had problems.

 

[Reburn]

I’ve been running mark 4’s over 20 years with no issues at all to 1200 yards. Worked ok for military snipers as well. But they don’t hold zero. Right.

Yea. The military never does anything incorrectly or backwards...........

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

But they don’t hold zero. Right.

You nailed it.

 

[2531usmc]

If Leupold scopes perform as poorly as people on this forum claim, they would be out of business in a month. But the opposite seems to be true.

 

[Nards444]

@hibernation, Yep. In the case I posted they actually said something was wrong.

Numbers be damned, my personal failure rate is 3 out of 4, or a 75% failure rate. People can nitpick sample size or decide Im not being truthful because it doesnt match their experience or “all those scopes cant be wrong” all they want. What kind of margin for error donyou want? A 200% margin for error in leupolds favor would still be a 15% failure rate. Who here would be happy with a legit 15% failure rate? Are other brands crappy at a high rate too? Maybe. Im sure many are. Its just odd to me that people simply dismiss the folks that have had problems.

I appreciate your input and never said you were wrong. All this definitely helps.

My only point is data and incidents matter. I own a f150. And I can go right now on the internet. and find 250 people upset about something on that truck. However with a million made a year, 250 people saying x failed isnt really indicative of anything

 

[Nards444]

If Leupold scopes perform as poorly as people on this forum claim, they would be out of business in a month. But the opposite seems to be true.

Good point. However people are fan boys. Searching the internet there’s enough to say there is smoke, however not sure there’s enough to say there is fire.

Partially could be people just miss and don’t know or just don’t know in general.

Average deer shot is something like 100yds across the board. Even at 100 yd zero, anything knocked off by 5-6in is still a kill shot more times then not.

Even if we assume there is an issue, frankly it might not matter. Losing zero even up to 1-2in, isn’t necessarily going to affect a whole lot even in the 3-400 yd range. So part of it is does it even matter

I’ve come to find out there is a lot of PRS guys here. And the mentality is different. You don’t have to be near as accurate as a hunter to be successful as you do a PRS shooter

 

[JohnJohnson]

My only point is data and incidents matter. I own a f150. And I can go right now on the internet. and find 250 people upset about something on that truck. However with a million made a year, 250 people saying x failed isnt really indicative of anything

Sure but people generally use their vehicles often. Most people with Leupolds are shooting 10 shots a year because that's what most hunters are doing. And most are not good enough shots or attentive enough to notice a zero shift unless it's big. Whereas this thread is in the long range section of this forum. People in here notice that stuff more.

 

[JackButler]

Yea. The military never does anything incorrectly or backwards...........

True but the more elite units tend to be a little better about it.
And even pro PRS shooters in 2024 prefer scopes that don’t t hold zero I guess.

 

[Nards444]

Sure but people generally use their vehicles often. Most people with Leupolds are shooting 10 shots a year because that's what most hunters are doing. And most are not good enough shots or attentive enough to notice a zero shift unless it's big. Whereas this thread is in the long range section of this forum. People in here notice that stuff more.

Agreed. However scopes aren’t built to be used like a car daily. Different entity. Point was I can go anywhere and find people unhappy on the internet. Really doesn’t mean a whole lot on the face of it.

Me you or the next guy have no way to verify who’s responding here and their credentials

Like I said I appreciate the input and it’s helping shape my decision. However it would be silly for me to bite fully into some guys with anecdotal experience and pointing to “look our forum did a poll and a few tests” it must be true

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Just shows there’s an issue but doesn’t show the depth of the issue. We also don’t know models were they low end or high end. Every item that rolls down a production line will have defects, and typically there’s an acceptable number or percent when you mass produce anything. That poll doesn’t show or prove that leupolds defect rate is higher then it should be or high compared to others.

Btw I’ve never owned anything leupold and still don’t. Just looking.

I think you and I agree about the issue. According to logic presented here in the group, if there is more than one reported issue there is a problem.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Well with any ATACR you wouldn't have issues finding game animals.

I am looking for the 4-20ish range ATACR at the moment.

Or a NF 2-10ish range scope. Just don’t want my scope to be 1/2 the weight of my rifle.

 

[Nards444]

I think you and I agree about the issue. According to logic presented here in the group, if there is more than one reported issue there is a problem.

Yes. It’s good info and there very well may be an issue. It just would be foolish to accept anything presented here as fact.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Sure but people generally use their vehicles often. Most people with Leupolds are shooting 10 shots a year because that's what most hunters are doing. And most are not good enough shots or attentive enough to notice a zero shift unless it's big. Whereas this thread is in the long range section of this forum. People in here notice that stuff more.

Good point about this sub form. Long range hunting. Or as those of us that care…shooters that aren’t as good at hunting.


In all seriousness. The drop tests has given me pause. Not enough to not buy a leupold. But it has given me pause. And I haven’t mounted my 2.5-8 yet.

 

[fwafwow]

 

[Formidilosus]

If Leupold scopes perform as poorly as people on this forum claim, they would be out of business in a month. But the opposite seems to be true.

That’s not even a logical statement. Are BSA scopes quality? What about Simmons? Center point? They’re all still in business and yet make absolute garbage scopes.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yes. That’s why I said their cult. When you blindly follow something you are part of their cult.

Leupold hater cult.
Leupolds never fail cult.

They are both cults.

Instead of nebulous terms and general non-specific statements to misrepresent what people are saying, let’s get specific- who exactly is a “hater” of Leupold? Name them. Then, can you quote them “hating” Leupold for some evidence?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

True but the more elite units tend to be a little better about it.
And even pro PRS shooters in 2024 prefer scopes that don’t t hold zero I guess.
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If you think PRS shooters are hard on equipment you’ve never met or shot with any of them.

Using PRS as some sort of appeal to authority is sad.