Is it all Leopolds

[z987k]

I bought that vx3hd 2.5-8 for my barret fieldcraft. It’s still sitting in the box. Why?! The drop test results I read about here.

I love my leupolds as much as the tikka cult loves their tikkas.

Yet I haven’t put that 2.5-8 on my rifle yet.

Instead we put the vx6 on it and replaced the 2.5lb NF that I bought it with.

But I’m looking for something else for that rifle. I just want a lighter scope.

We ain’t shooting 800yds. We don’t want to shoot longer than 300 with it and ideally we shoot 100 or less.

The trijicon accupoint 3-9's are really light and that brand seems to have a good reputation. Most of the reticles are crap, but if a standard duplex or a simple mil dot work for you, it might be a good option.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Thats not required, and is not how that works. If you want to find out what the “best” is- say the diffence in 1% or 2%, then yes you will need a rather large sample size and rigerious testing. However, if you just want to find which is most likely to fail at a relatively low level, you don’t.
Holding zero is the most basic function of an aiming device. It does not take very many samples failing to know that there is a mechanical issue with a scope make/model. Just like you don’t have to crash test many samples of a car if a 30mph impact causes the motor to end up touching the back seats- one or two and you know that there is a base mechanical and design issue with all of them.

If you have 10 people randomly in a room and half of them have had Leupold repair failed erectors on scopes- it’s a very good indication that there is probably something wrong. Likewise, when those same 10 random people have had no, or one time NF repaired a scope, it’s probably a good indication that they are less failure prone. Of course this is a generalization and use cases certainly factor in.

According to this is there is more than one failure there is an issue. Data matters.

 

[z987k]

There isn’t one. I just need one

Riflescopes - Hunting - 8x56 Klassik

www.schmidtundbender.de

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Riflescopes - Hunting - 8x56 Klassik

www.schmidtundbender.de

No FFP MIL hunting reticle.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Exactly. I personally dont think 150 people are lying, ie not “being truthful”. So we are left with the imperfect info we have. Personally, my experience consistently aligns with both the drop tests and the poll. The fact that those three things all align makes my personal decision easy. If you have personal experience that doesnt align with the other info, well, its up to you to decide what the risks and rewards are and ultimately what to do with it, obviously that wont be as clear.

Of course, anyone that really has a problem with all this is also welcome to start their own counter-cult by showing that their leupold scope holds zero under harsh use by showcasing their own check using a transparent methodology. After all, talk minus action=zilch.

Yes. That’s why I said their cult. When you blindly follow something you are part of their cult.

Leupold hater cult.
Leupolds never fail cult.

They are both cults.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

The trijicon accupoint 3-9's are really light and that brand seems to have a good reputation. Most of the reticles are crap, but if a standard duplex or a simple mil dot work for you, it might be a good option.

I don’t mind simple duplex reticle.

I almost bought one of these a few months ago, but the guy wanted to charge me $50 to ship it.

My next trip to the city, I’m hoping to look through one. Clarity matters to me.

 

[z987k]

No FFP MIL hunting reticle.

Ah, ya reticles matter. But, there's no such thing as a FFP, or SFP fixed power scope.

 

[Nards444]

Entirely true that leupold sells more scopes, and that you can find what you want online, but thats not what a poll like that says. If the poll’s only choice was “raise your hand if your leupy lost zero”, then yes, you’d expect to see a higher # of complaints simply given a higher number of scopes in the market. If that was what the poll was then yes, without “success” data it would tell you nothing more than that leupold sells a lot of scopes. But the poll’s choices DO show success data, at a ratio of two votes for failures for each vote for success. As a ratio it’s irrelevant how many scopes we’re talking about IF the 150 respondents represent a representative sample of leupold customers. That’s whats in question, is whether the 150 people who responded is proportionally representative of what YOU will experience. Maybe, maybe not. Whether it correlates with your personal experience after legitimately checking, as well as the objective info you have access to, thats different too.

I’m no math wiz, but sample size matters. 256 total votes is clearly not enough of a sample size. The margin of error on that poll would be massive. The other issue is it doesn’t compare against other brands.

Its not nearly enough to make an informed decision, at those numbers it’s an opinion.

 

[Nards444]

According to this is there is more than one failure there is an issue. Data matters.

Just shows there’s an issue but doesn’t show the depth of the issue. We also don’t know models were they low end or high end. Every item that rolls down a production line will have defects, and typically there’s an acceptable number or percent when you mass produce anything. That poll doesn’t show or prove that leupolds defect rate is higher then it should be or high compared to others.

Btw I’ve never owned anything leupold and still don’t. Just looking.

 

[JackButler]

I’ve never had a leupold that kept zero. Always a little off. Not enough to miss at 200 yards, but always off. None would hold zero on any sort of impact. I’d wager most guys who say “mine has never lost zero” shoot a box of ammo a year and call it good and don’t kill much beyond 200 yards. They almost certainly never track it.

I’ve been running mark 4’s over 20 years with no issues at all to 1200 yards. Worked ok for military snipers as well. But they don’t hold zero. Right.

 

[hibernation]

Is this “truthful” enough?

View attachment 795078

For what it's worth, I sent one back that kept showing impact shifts and they gave it a clean bill of health. Digging into some of their definitions was interesting. The way they define failures during their "impact testing" has nothing to do with zero retention, it's strictly about functionality.

If a scope goes through their impact/torture testing and physically functions properly at the end, meaning it's intact and the turrets still work, that's a pass. They don't evaluate or even look for changes in POI during the test, just pure functionality at the end.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I wouldn’t call it a moot point. If you can’t see your target, it’s hard to hit it. Where do we draw the line on accepting unacceptable quality at price points?

Well with any ATACR you wouldn't have issues finding game animals.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Ah, ya reticles matter. But, there's no such thing as a FFP, or SFP fixed power scope.

Correct. I throw that in there as a default for a spec so many times it's habit haha!

 

[Macintosh]

@hibernation, Yep. In the case I posted they actually said something was wrong.

Numbers be damned, my personal failure rate is 3 out of 4, or a 75% failure rate. People can nitpick sample size or decide Im not being truthful because it doesnt match their experience or “all those scopes cant be wrong” all they want. What kind of margin for error donyou want? A 200% margin for error in leupolds favor would still be a 15% failure rate. Who here would be happy with a legit 15% failure rate? Are other brands crappy at a high rate too? Maybe. Im sure many are. Its just odd to me that people simply dismiss the folks that have had problems.

 

[Reburn]

I’ve been running mark 4’s over 20 years with no issues at all to 1200 yards. Worked ok for military snipers as well. But they don’t hold zero. Right.

Yea. The military never does anything incorrectly or backwards...........

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

But they don’t hold zero. Right.

You nailed it.

 

[2531usmc]

If Leupold scopes perform as poorly as people on this forum claim, they would be out of business in a month. But the opposite seems to be true.

 

[Nards444]

@hibernation, Yep. In the case I posted they actually said something was wrong.

Numbers be damned, my personal failure rate is 3 out of 4, or a 75% failure rate. People can nitpick sample size or decide Im not being truthful because it doesnt match their experience or “all those scopes cant be wrong” all they want. What kind of margin for error donyou want? A 200% margin for error in leupolds favor would still be a 15% failure rate. Who here would be happy with a legit 15% failure rate? Are other brands crappy at a high rate too? Maybe. Im sure many are. Its just odd to me that people simply dismiss the folks that have had problems.

I appreciate your input and never said you were wrong. All this definitely helps.

My only point is data and incidents matter. I own a f150. And I can go right now on the internet. and find 250 people upset about something on that truck. However with a million made a year, 250 people saying x failed isnt really indicative of anything

 

[Nards444]

If Leupold scopes perform as poorly as people on this forum claim, they would be out of business in a month. But the opposite seems to be true.

Good point. However people are fan boys. Searching the internet there’s enough to say there is smoke, however not sure there’s enough to say there is fire.

Partially could be people just miss and don’t know or just don’t know in general.

Average deer shot is something like 100yds across the board. Even at 100 yd zero, anything knocked off by 5-6in is still a kill shot more times then not.

Even if we assume there is an issue, frankly it might not matter. Losing zero even up to 1-2in, isn’t necessarily going to affect a whole lot even in the 3-400 yd range. So part of it is does it even matter

I’ve come to find out there is a lot of PRS guys here. And the mentality is different. You don’t have to be near as accurate as a hunter to be successful as you do a PRS shooter

 

[JohnJohnson]

My only point is data and incidents matter. I own a f150. And I can go right now on the internet. and find 250 people upset about something on that truck. However with a million made a year, 250 people saying x failed isnt really indicative of anything

Sure but people generally use their vehicles often. Most people with Leupolds are shooting 10 shots a year because that's what most hunters are doing. And most are not good enough shots or attentive enough to notice a zero shift unless it's big. Whereas this thread is in the long range section of this forum. People in here notice that stuff more.