POSTING FOR AWARENESS FOR UTAH AND IDAHO RESIDENTS

[Poser]

There is nothing any of us can do to stop it short of all-out global revolution against the technocrats
.

I’m ready, let’s do it.

 

[One300wsm]

Can't tell if you're joking. If not, this is a messed up attitude. The core of the problem really.

No he’s just amused at the thread, no one knows anything but him about the topic, while he’s making chump change buildings loops. We are all ignorant, I think is what he stated. This is laughable, and he’s the idiot thinking he’s making big money working for the man. How about sending us a picture of that entrenched estate when you getr bought. What a clown , you’ll just piss it away.

 

[Rotnguns]

that is not the case. it was a pre review of sorts to identify areas preferable for solar application. The entire area would not be fenced. Individual solar permits with in WSP coverage would require their own project permit. Each permit would have to go through the permitting process. The 31 million acres was supposed to be excess area to give the individual project flexibility to avoid problem within the pre-approved area. Modelling forecast suggested 700,000 acres would be all that was required to meet the net-zero benchmark the administration was striving for by 2035. I made a very long post about it like I said before. You can find the links in my post on the conservation forum to the 2025 modelling work by NREL that was used and from there earlier variations of those publications/modelling if its something you really care about. or just DM me and ill send it to you if you are desperate to read it. There is also a rokcast about the Solar Plan that is quite good. Mule Deer Migration with TCRP or something. March 2024 is the date of the Rokcast if i recall.

The final directive, which came after the WSP, was called the Renewable Energy Rule. The purpose was to encourage development of wind and solar farms on BLM land. Given the constraints of the directive, over 30 million acres was eligible for private solar and wind farms. Further, the RER drastically reduced both lease fees and capacity fees to encourage development, and it also streamlined the permit process, allowing "discretion" to be applied by regulatory agencies. Here is a link to the final RER document:

Renewable Energy Rule | Bureau of Land Management

Delivering a clean energy economy The Bureau of Land Management has updated its regulations to promote responsible development of solar and wind energy on public lands. The final Renewable Energy Rule reduces acreage rents and capacity fees, improves the BLM’s application process, and delivers...

www.blm.gov

As for the NREL model, I found a link. Here is a pertinent quote:

"For UPV, the capacity density is uniformly assumed to be 43 MWDC/km2 (5.7 acres/MWDC)."

This value simply doesn't hold up to the reality of a very large solar farm. For example, the Gonghe Talatan Solar Park I previously referenced requires 103 600 acres to provide 2.05 GW of annualized power. Using the CD claimed in the NREL report, they should be providing 18.2 GW of annualized power. Suspiciously, the NREL CD is over nine times what the actual value is for the Gonghe plant, which is just about the reciprocal of the Gonghe capacity factor. I wonder if the authors are simply going by nameplate capacity? And the applicants for the Box Elder plant tell us that 3.6 million acres would be required to provide 9 GW for their data center. I question the technical content of the NREL report, based upon real-world data from a state-of-the-art working solar farm.

 

[CJ19]

The final directive, which came after the WSP, was called the Renewable Energy Rule. The purpose was to encourage development of wind and solar farms on BLM land. Given the constraints of the directive, over 30 million acres was eligible for private solar and wind farms. Further, the RER drastically reduced both lease fees and capacity fees to encourage development, and it also streamlined the permit process, allowing "discretion" to be applied by regulatory agencies. Here is a link to the final RER document:

Renewable Energy Rule | Bureau of Land Management

Delivering a clean energy economy The Bureau of Land Management has updated its regulations to promote responsible development of solar and wind energy on public lands. The final Renewable Energy Rule reduces acreage rents and capacity fees, improves the BLM’s application process, and delivers...

www.blm.gov

As for the NREL model, I found a link. Here is a pertinent quote:

"For UPV, the capacity density is uniformly assumed to be 43 MWDC/km2 (5.7 acres/MWDC)."

This value simply doesn't hold up to the reality of a very large solar farm. For example, the Gonghe Talatan Solar Park I previously referenced requires 103 600 acres to provide 2.05 GW of annualized power. Using the CD claimed in the NREL report, they should be providing 18.2 GW of annualized power. Suspiciously, the NREL CD is over nine times what the actual value is for the Gonghe plant, which is just about the reciprocal of the Gonghe capacity factor. I wonder if the authors are simply going by nameplate capacity? And the applicants for the Box Elder plant tell us that 3.6 million acres would be required to provide 9 GW for their data center. I question the technical content of the NREL report, based upon real-world data from a state-of-the-art working solar farm.

heres the western solar plan https://blmsolar.anl.gov

the RER is different but also something. reducing leasing cost by 80%


the electrical stuff is tough for me to follow as I am not a lowly engineer but the modelling and acreage estimate seemed sugar-coated to me. I am not against renewables just anti net zero by 2035. i would really like a little less smoke blown up my ass by the proponents of the technology when the discussion is had and the modelling we are basing decisions from is done.

 

[Rotnguns]

yup that the one. the electrical stuff is tough for me to follow as I am not a lowly engineer but the modelling and acreage estimate seemed sugar-coated to me. I am not against renewables just anti net zero by 2035. i would really like a little less smoke blown up my ass by the proponents of the technology when the discussion is had and the modelling we are basing decisions from is done.

Yep, lots of numbers being thrown about, with considerably different values based upon the agenda of the authors. I suspect the NREL report made one or more of the following errors:
1. Neglect the major overbuild needed to supply fixed power 24/7 ;
2. Use of a highly-optimistic capacity density factor that may be close to a best case scenario realized for only a few hours of optimal radiation;
3. Unrealistic capacity factor, disregarding battery losses, transmission line losses, degradation of solar panels and lithium batteries, etc.
4. They simply may have neglected to apply any capacity factor at all, instead using nameplate capacity.

 

[CJ19]

Yep, lots of numbers being thrown about, with considerably different values based upon the agenda of the authors. I suspect the NREL report made one or more of the following errors:
1. Neglect the major overbuild needed to supply fixed power 24/7 ;
2. Use of a highly-optimistic capacity density factor that may be close to a best case scenario realized for only a few hours of optimal radiation;
3. Unrealistic capacity factor, disregarding battery losses, transmission line losses, degradation of solar panels and lithium batteries, etc.
4. They simply may have neglected to apply any capacity factor at all, instead using nameplate capacity.

i edited by post above btw. the RER and the WSP are different. But what you are describing is the kind of stuff models simplify or error in and the people reading the results usually never even know.

 

[The Ri Guy]

No he’s just amused at the thread, no one knows anything but him about the topic, while he’s making chump change buildings loops. We are all ignorant, I think is what he stated. This is laughable, and he’s the idiot thinking he’s making big money working for the man. How about sending us a picture of that entrenched estate when you getr bought. What a clown , you’ll just piss it away.

I did not assert anything about what anyone here did or didn’t know. I shared perspective from someone on the frontlines of the industry, and made a comment about the general public’s lack of knowledge on the topic.

If you’re not invested in it that’s up to you.

Call me fatalistic but the reality of exponential hyperscaling into the future looks very far from ideal for the landscape, where we all hunt and fish and recreate. Water is the key resource, clown or no.

Appreciate the attack though, God Bless!

 

[Poser]

From a purely quality of life standpoint, two of the more common complaints about data centers in rural areas are the noise levels and the light pollution. Ok, data centers are loud as they are running gas powered turbines 24/7. But, whay the light the pollution? They have these entire data centers super illuminated. From a security standpoint, you these DC's are using infared cameras. Why are they so bright?

When placed in urban areas, the concentrated fume outputs from the gas turbines are the main issue. The Grok center in South Memphis is causing all kinds of localized respiatory issues as one of the byproducts of the turbines pumping out concentrated levels of ozone, Fine Particulate Matter, and Formaldehyde. Naturally, Tennessee's solution was to dilute the local push back by redistrtcing a Black neighborhood largely employed by a Kellog's plant into a congressional distrcit 3.5 hours away that is largely gated communities in South Nashville. There's been very little national coverage on it, but its been a huge deal on a local level. Based on that as pect alone, it would seem that these data centers are enviromental disaters, at least on a highly concentrated, localized level.

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

Why didn't O'Leary, a Canadian, build this in Canada

 

[solarshooter]

I did not assert anything about what anyone here did or didn’t know. I shared perspective from someone on the frontlines of the industry, and made a comment about the general public’s lack of knowledge on the topic.

If you’re not invested in it that’s up to you.

Call me fatalistic but the reality of exponential hyperscaling into the future looks very far from ideal for the landscape, where we all hunt and fish and recreate. Water is the key resource, clown or no.

Appreciate the attack though, God Bless!

The attitude you are flaunting on this thread is disgusting to me. It's fundamentally antisocial and antihuman. A society cannot function if it's comprised of people who are only interested in themselves and their enrichment without regard to everything or everyone around them. I'm no saint, but I have absolutely made job choices and changes because I disagree with the morality of the job and want to maintain a clear conscience.

 

[The Ri Guy]

The attitude you are flaunting on this thread is disgusting to me. It's fundamentally antisocial and antihuman. A society cannot function if it's comprised of people who are only interested in themselves and their enrichment without regard to everything or everyone around them. I'm no saint, but I have absolutely made job choices and changes because I disagree with the morality of the job and want to maintain a clear conscience.

I am not flaunting anything.

Peaking behind the curtain of this industry is extremely concerning for the future of the landscape and water specifically. All of the marketing makes them sound entirely self-sufficient and low impact, which is not the truth of the matter in many instances. Compound the footprint and environmental impact with climate trends and things do not look positive for the landscape down the road, unless society swings hard back to modular nuclear, or there is a major energy breakthrough elsewhere. The folks in charge on both the Government and Private Sector sides make the decisions, not me, and they are lining their pockets with Gold with no regard for anyone or anything. They won't let their train to the bank be derailed.

Securing resources is simply a human imperative. I am of the opinion that water specifically will become a limiting resource in the future at the rate they want to hyperscale these data centers, and believe securing your own source if possible is a prudent strategy. Natural spring, river or creek frontage up a deep valley, large naturally filling lake access, whatever. I would like to own a property that provides entrenched water access if possible.

If my opinion, and my personal desire to secure my families future as much as possible, based on my personal observation and daily firsthand experience in the industry of topic makes me disgusting, antisocial, and antihuman to you then that's your opinion.

 

[CJ19]

From a purely quality of life standpoint, two of the more common complaints about data centers in rural areas are the noise levels and the light pollution. Ok, data centers are loud as they are running gas powered turbines 24/7. But, whay the light the pollution? They have these entire data centers super illuminated. From a security standpoint, you these DC's are using infared cameras. Why are they so bright?

When placed in urban areas, the concentrated fume outputs from the gas turbines are the main issue. The Grok center in South Memphis is causing all kinds of localized respiatory issues as one of the byproducts of the turbines pumping out concentrated levels of ozone, Fine Particulate Matter, and Formaldehyde. Naturally, Tennessee's solution was to dilute the local push back by redistrtcing a Black neighborhood largely employed by a Kellog's plant into a congressional distrcit 3.5 hours away that is largely gated communities in South Nashville. There's been very little national coverage on it, but its been a huge deal on a local level. Based on that as pect alone, it would seem that these data centers are enviromental disaters, at least on a highly concentrated, localized level.

is there a link or source you can cite for these health impacts you are discussing in TN? I would like to read more about it.

 

[The Ri Guy]

is there a link or source you can cite for these health impacts you are discussing in TN? I would like to read more about it.

It appears the origin of the pollution is from illegal power plants they built without permits or approvals, and the power plants themselves are polluting.

No idea how credible this source is.

xAI built an illegal power plant to power its data center

This article was updated April, 14, 2026 to reflect new litigation. Just south of the Tennessee-Mississippi state line sits dozens of unpermitted gas turbines that power xAI’s Colossus 2 data center while releasing smog-forming pollution, soot, and hazardous chemicals like formaldehyde. The tech...

www.selc.org

 

[Poser]

is there a link or source you can cite for these health impacts are you discussing in TN? I would like to read more about it.

https://time.com/7308925/elon-musk-memphis-ai-data-center/

Researchers at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, at the request of TIME, ran an analysis on the air quality in South Memphis over the last couple of years, based on public satellite data from NASA and the European Space Agency. They found that average concentrations of nitrogen dioxide have increased by 3% when comparing the periods before June 2024 and afterward. They also found that peak nitrogen dioxide concentration levels have increased by 79% from pre-xAI levels in areas immediately surrounding the data center, and by 9% in nearby Boxtown.

https://www.tba.org/?pg=Hastings2025AIX

https://tennesseelookout.com/2026/0...p-along-the-mississippi-tennessee-state-line/

 

[CJ19]

I think you guys should rely on better information to make your decisions. Nothing you linked is anything I would consider close to reliable. These wild goose chase investigations sometimes contain some truth but most of the time there is just bad information, bad actors, or the details are far different than what is being written in the clickbait or hit piece. From what I can find the Univ of TN "data" is some garbage remote sensing model and the results did not even indicate that the parameters that TIME are commenting on exceeded federal standards. I would expect TN Dept of Environment and Conservation as well as Shelby County, TN to have investigated those complaints. Maybe they still are and will find something worth citing.

This happened in the boundary waters thread to. Posting stuff thats just inaccurate or in some case completely false. That can create a whole new set of problems. It is very important that official objections to projects are based on good information and have merit. In that case it was something like "We are going to mine landfills copper demand" and "The tech sector has moved past Ni and what the boundary waters mine is targeting because of LFP batteries." Both false claims. And both claims have their own set of wildly difficult to deal with problems. For 1 thing LFP batteries require mining phosphate. The Caldwell Canyon mine is a phosphate mine and was subject to lawsuit regarding sage grouse.

I openly said I was against the boundary water mine but thought people got a lot of things wrong. I have no opinion either way in the case of these data centers. I am not discouraging people from voicing their concerns, but often it turns into hysteria separated from reality. When hysterical mobs come up with a list of concerns a lot of times companies will work to address those concerns even if those requests are base in utter fallacy or on bad information. In this case, be careful what you wish for. The military sent an officer to testify that this was a national security issue in the meeting I watched. Which says to me there is a good chance it is going to be built somewhere. If people don't want it to run off the gas pipeline and generators, the company just might adjust the plan to respond to the publics concerns (legit or not legit). You might not like what that entails. I don't think the concern for "air quality" in sparsely populated Utah is the same as urban or residential TN. The water seems like the issue of most concern to me in this case.

https://time.com/7308925/elon-musk-memphis-ai-data-center/

Researchers at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, at the request of TIME, ran an analysis on the air quality in South Memphis over the last couple of years, based on public satellite data from NASA and the European Space Agency. They found that average concentrations of nitrogen dioxide have increased by 3% when comparing the periods before June 2024 and afterward. They also found that peak nitrogen dioxide concentration levels have increased by 79% from pre-xAI levels in areas immediately surrounding the data center, and by 9% in nearby Boxtown.

https://www.tba.org/?pg=Hastings2025AIX

https://tennesseelookout.com/2026/0...p-along-the-mississippi-tennessee-state-line/

It appears the origin of the pollution is from illegal power plants they built without permits or approvals, and the power plants themselves are polluting.

No idea how credible this source is.

xAI built an illegal power plant to power its data center

This article was updated April, 14, 2026 to reflect new litigation. Just south of the Tennessee-Mississippi state line sits dozens of unpermitted gas turbines that power xAI’s Colossus 2 data center while releasing smog-forming pollution, soot, and hazardous chemicals like formaldehyde. The tech...

www.selc.org

 

[Poser]

I think you guys should rely on better information to make your decisions. Nothing you linked is anything I would consider close to reliable. These wild goose chase investigations sometimes contain some truth but most of the time there is just bad information, bad actors, or the details are far different than what is being written in the clickbait or hit piece. From what I can find the Univ of TN "data" is some garbage remote sensing model and the results did not even indicate that the parameters that TIME are commenting on exceeded federal standards. I would expect TN Dept of Environment and Conservation as well as Shelby County, TN to have investigated those complaints. Maybe they still are and will find something worth citing.

This happened in the boundary waters thread to. Posting stuff thats just inaccurate or in some case completely false. That can create a whole new set of problems. It is very important that official objections to projects are based on good information and have merit. In that case it was something like "We are going to mine landfills copper demand" and "The tech sector has moved past Ni and what the boundary waters mine is targeting because of LFP batteries." Both false claims. And both claims have their own set of wildly difficult to deal with problems. For 1 thing LFP batteries require mining phosphate. The Caldwell Canyon mine is a phosphate mine and was subject to lawsuit regarding sage grouse.

I openly said I was against the boundary water mine but thought people got a lot of things wrong. I have no opinion either way in the case of these data centers. I am not discouraging people from voicing their concerns, but often it turns into hysteria separated from reality. When hysterical mobs come up with a list of concerns a lot of times companies will work to address those concerns even if those requests are base in utter fallacy or on bad information. In this case, be careful what you wish for. The military sent an officer to testify that this was a national security issue in the meeting I watched. Which says to me there is a good chance it is going to be built somewhere. If people don't want it to run off the gas pipeline and generators, the company just might adjust the plan to respond to the publics concerns (legit or not legit). You might not like what that entails. I don't think the concern for "air quality" in sparsely populated Utah is the same as urban or residential TN. The water seems like the issue of most concern to me in this case.

I’m serious when I say this has barely been coverage in any media so there aren’t a lot of available sources on it. I only know about it because I spent some time living in Memphis and tend to keep up with things. Memphis was recently gerrymandered into 3 parts and now has no local state congressional representation. Zero. The 3 districts were spread out over rural areas and Nashville suburbs to dilute the votes. Turns out, nobody cares how this impacts a black neighborhood in South Memphis or poor rural areas of Southhaven MS and nobody wants to hear about it. The people in the localized areas have been screaming, but nobody’s listening.

 

[CJ19]

I’m serious when I say this has barely been coverage in any media so there aren’t a lot of available sources on it. I only know about it because I spent some time living in Memphis and tend to keep up with things. Memphis was recently gerrymandered into 3 parts and now has no local state congressional representation. Zero. The 3 districts were spread out over rural areas and Nashville suburbs to dilute the votes. Turns out, nobody cares how this impacts a black neighborhood in South Memphis or poor rural areas of Southhaven MS and nobody wants to hear about it. The people in the localized areas have been screaming, but nobody’s listening.

looks like there is a lot of coverage of it. I don't consider news to be reliable. I believe people are concerned. I believe there are gas generators. But this has nothing to do with peoples race. This is a question of what the data actually says about air quality.

 

[Poser]

looks like there is a lot of coverage of it. I don't consider news to be reliable. I believe people are concerned. I believe there are gas generators. But this has nothing to do with peoples race. This is a question of what the data actually says about air quality.

I'll add that, reportedly, one of the many measures that Musk took when he completely fleeced the American people with his DOGE scam (you know, the one that actually costed America more money than it saved) was end any and all of the very many EPA investigations into anything related to his businesses. You know and I know that in the circumstances state of America, a billionaire (maybe soon to be trillionaire) technocrat can operate with immunity.

I so think that will change in the near future as I don't buy into this idea of "techno-feudalism." Peter Theil, Elon Musk etc subscribe to this notion that the global political system is failing, and that the only way to save civilization from apocalyptic stagnation is for visionary-kook tech oligarchs and founders to build parallel structures outside the reach of the traditional democratic state. Their entire philosophy is built on the notion that technology and democracy will quickly come to the point that they can no longer co-exist and you can easily look at an example such as South Memphis and see this philosophy in action.

 

[CJ19]

I'll add that, reportedly, one of the many measures that Musk took when he completely fleeced the American people with his DOGE scam (you know, the one that actually costed America more money than it saved) was end any and all of the very many EPA investigations into anything related to his businesses. You know and I know that in the circumstances state of America, a billionaire (maybe soon to be trillionaire) technocrat can operate with immunity.

I so think that will change in the near future as I don't buy into this idea of "techno-feudalism." Peter Theil, Elon Musk etc subscribe to this notion that the global political system is failing, and that the only way to save civilization from apocalyptic stagnation is for visionary-kook tech oligarchs and founders to build parallel structures outside the reach of the traditional democratic state. Their entire philosophy is built on the notion that technology and democracy will quickly come to the point that they can no longer co-exist and you can easily look at an example such as South Memphis and see this philosophy in action.

I am sure there are all kinds of politics at play there from all directions and I am not really interested in discussing them. My point of my post was that with the Utah data center, people should have good information about what they are showing up to meetings with pitchforks about. I prefer analytical data, technical reports, and engineering plans.

 

[One300wsm]

I am sure there are all kinds of politics at play there from all directions and I am not really interested in discussing them. My point of my post was that with the Utah data center, people should have good information about what they are showing up to meetings with pitchforks about. I prefer analytical data, technical reports, and engineering plans.

I prefer no AI what part of that don’t you get. Your Avatar pretty much demonstrates our kids on today’s technology.