Is CWD the Imminent Doom for Hunting?

[cuerro viejo]

I think the best anyone can do is make an informed choice on (any of the many) issues involving CWD. One of the frustrating.things is that so many people either don't know about it, or are very misinformed. If you know the risks (even if you choose not to acknowledge them as such) and choose to proceed accordingly, that's as much as anyone can ask of you.

So is it eating it thats dangerous or is handling or being next to deer while administering live or post postmortem testing. Im trying to figure out if I need chem suit up and what degree of filtration. I’m not real savoy in this stuff.. not enough CWD pod cast listening I guess…

 

[Fordguy]

What is the risk and probability of consuming CWD positive vs CWD not detected? Are you not taking a calculated risk by consuming venison, regardless of the test result. Is it really higher on an untested animal? Is it really higher on a positive animal? Is there any evidence whatsoever that I am susceptible to a disease that we know has been present for 56 years yet has never been confirmed in a human?

If the prion load in an animal is low enough that CWD is undetected, the prions consumed will be reduced as well. If you're a vet you probably know that they test (ELISA) the retropharyngeal lymph nodes because it's an easy to biopsy location where prions accumulate. I didn't say that I was avoiding all risk. No one can avoid all risk, there's risk in everything everyone does, every day. I've said multiple times (not sure in this thread, possibly one of the other CWD threads) that I avoid the risk where I can (especially where it doesnt cost me anything) and that means where the risk is known.

"Current data on prion concentrations in different cervid body tissues suggest that an ELISA and/or IHC result of “not detected” from the tested central nervous system or lymphoid tissue provides reassurance that CWD prions are likely not present in skeletal muscle"

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.01091-19

 

[DAD]

If we are certain that CWD doesn't affect domestic livestock and that they each have their own form of prion, why would we think that it would affect us?

Again, the deer in the field has CWD, but we don't worry or test the cow feeding in the same field.

 

[Dos Perros]

Here's the thing about risk (probability times impact): considering we don't know of anyone that has contracted CWD, but we do know of people who have died in hunting accidents, driving to hunting, etc, what's the difference in your internal risk tolerance calculus? Why does CWD scare people but these other risks don't? Mathematically I can prove the latter examples are riskier. Yet y'all do what you do. This is not logical.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Here's the thing about risk (probability times impact): considering we don't know of anyone that has contracted CWD, but we do know of people who have died in hunting accidents, driving to hunting, etc, what's the difference in your internal risk tolerance calculus? Why does CWD scare people but these other risks don't? Mathematically I can prove the latter examples are riskier. Yet y'all do what you do. This is not logical.

Exactly my train of thought.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Here's the thing about risk (probability times impact): considering we don't know of anyone that has contracted CWD, but we do know of people who have died in hunting accidents, driving to hunting, etc, what's the difference in your internal risk tolerance calculus? Why does CWD scare people but these other risks don't? Mathematically I can prove the latter examples are riskier. Yet y'all do what you do. This is not logical.

My thoughts exactly. I have read a lot about the progress of the disease, and while some epidemiologist , such as Micheal Osterholm say there is a vary high likelihood that at some point the disease MAY be found in humans, it has yet to happen. I for one am not concerned that I will die from something that as of now is not a risk factor in humans. If it is a concern for you, handle all harvested game with extreme care, and have the animal tested. But keep in mind there is a chance you could get a false negative results.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

If the prion load in an animal is low enough that CWD is undetected, the prions consumed will be reduced as well. If you're a vet you probably know that they test (ELISA) the retropharyngeal lymph nodes because it's an easy to biopsy location where prions accumulate. I didn't say that I was avoiding all risk. No one can avoid all risk, there's risk in everything everyone does, every day. I've said multiple times (not sure in this thread, possibly one of the other CWD threads) that I avoid the risk where I can (especially where it doesnt cost me anything) and that means where the risk is known.

"Current data on prion concentrations in different cervid body tissues suggest that an ELISA and/or IHC result of “not detected” from the tested central nervous system or lymphoid tissue provides reassurance that CWD prions are likely not present in skeletal muscle"

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.01091-19

That's an informative article.

 

[BackcountryIdaho]

CWD certainly takes some of the fun out of the equation. There's no doubt about that for me. CWD is spreading in Idaho, and the buck I killed this year is from a newer potential CWD area where IDFG has asked for samples. I don't have a problem providing data to my wildlife management agency, and had my buck tested. I won't have the results back for a couple more weeks yet. So we had to package all the meat, but haven't been able to touch it, and I've got a deer head laying out under my drift boat that normally would already be a euro mount on the wall.

Yes, I like whine with my cheese.

 

[Hoove]

Not being facetious but is CWD data any more trust worthy than covid data?

 

[Andrew12gauge]

CWD certainly takes some of the fun out of the equation. There's no doubt about that for me. CWD is spreading in Idaho, and the buck I killed this year is from a newer potential CWD area where IDFG has asked for samples. I don't have a problem providing data to my wildlife management agency, and had my buck tested. I won't have the results back for a couple more weeks yet. So we had to package all the meat, but haven't been able to touch it, and I've got a deer head laying out under my drift boat that normally would already be a euro mount on the wall.

Yes, I like whine with my cheese.

I don’t understand why the potential of CWD is keeping you from euro mounting the deer head? As a matter of fact didn’t you kinda just admit to breaking the law by removing the head with brains intact from the CWD area


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[wytx]

If we are certain that CWD doesn't affect domestic livestock and that they each have their own form of prion, why would we think that it would affect us?

Again, the deer in the field has CWD, but we don't worry or test the cow feeding in the same field.

Study done, no transmission to cattle.
Up until this year I believe every animal susceptible to cwd placed in the pens at Sybille died from cwd except 1 cow elk, she has the "special" gene.
This year one of the bulls was gored to death by the others, he tested negative and was 8 yrs old, born at Sybille.

Long-Term Research Shows Domestic Cattle Resist Oral Exposure to Chronic Wasting Disease | News | University of Wyoming

www.uwyo.edu

 

[wytx]

Not being facetious but is CWD data any more trust worthy than covid data?

I guess it depends on who is doing the research and if you know and trust them. We have known several of the researches here in Wyoming, good folks without an agenda.

Now the biologists pushing for certain control measures, not so much.

We get every deer aged we take in the endemic area, and tested for cwd for the most part.
When the biologists state at meetings about no mature bucks and cwd prevalence we always bring up our older age class bucks and the negative test results, they get quiet.
Most are from right across the fence from Sybille so they don't have much to say when we bring them up.
Yes we have seen and found cwd animals, alive and dead. They are not littered all over the landscape.
Populations have varied greatly over the past 35 years, mainly due to winter and drought, not cwd.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Wow this thread blew up and I went on a 1.5 day hunt trying to fill my MZ tag. Reading through it does give me SOME hope. Some of y'all just like to pretend you KNOW something.

Its a real bummer that CWD is in Idaho now. Was hoping that wouldn't happen.

 

[grfox92]

Its a real bummer that CWD is in Idaho now. Was hoping that wouldn't happen.

It will be everywhere in the lower 48 eventually. It's creeping into the Virgin units in Wyoming slowly but surely.


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[BackcountryIdaho]

I don’t understand why the potential of CWD is keeping you from euro mounting the deer head? As a matter of fact didn’t you kinda just admit to breaking the law by removing the head with brains intact from the CWD area


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Since fish and game biologists removed the lymph nodes, and I showed them on a map where the buck died, I think they would have addressed any issues with how I handled the carcass... I was not in unit 14 or 15

 

[Andrew12gauge]

Since fish and game biologists removed the lymph nodes, and I showed them on a map where the buck died, I think they would have addressed any issues with how I handled the carcass... I was not in unit 14 or 15

Ok but again, why can’t you do a euro mount due to the possibility of CWD?


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[Hoove]

know in Missouri around 2003 MDC said it was in two counties. Now, twenty years later they say sixty six of 114.
I question the accuracy especially early on. You won’t see what you’re not looking for, no?
I suppose it’s one of those things at this point the individual consumer is going to have to choose their own course.
I don’t think anyone can assume it’s not in beef.

 

[Montana'eer]

Study done, no transmission to cattle.
Up until this year I believe every animal susceptible to cwd placed in the pens at Sybille died from cwd except 1 cow elk, she has the "special" gene.
This year one of the bulls was gored to death by the others, he tested negative and was 8 yrs old, born at Sybille.

Long-Term Research Shows Domestic Cattle Resist Oral Exposure to Chronic Wasting Disease | News | University of Wyoming

www.uwyo.edu

I read a few things published from the UWYO researchers and it's pretty amazing they've identified 3 separate genome types of mule deer in the study area. One with high prevalence rate of contracting CWD and one with less prevalence and one with zero prevalence. That similarity with the cow elk is amazing as well. The cow elk was bombarded with CWD exposure over years and has not contracted it. In some ways this is the most encouraging news I've heard. However, it was alarming that one herd in WY is expected to witness a 19% decline year over year and that native herd may disappear in time.

I hunt an area in north eastern MT with a high prevalence rate of CWD. 5 years ago and prior it was not uncommon to see hundreds of mule deer at this one reservoir and surrounding areas prior to opening day. This year while I was early season bird hunting I saw a grand total of ZERO mule deer over 3 days. None. The drought may have pushed them out but I'm beginning to think CWD could be a factor as well. We don't hear a lot of stuff from FWP on the matter in MT.

 

[Hoove]

It hasn’t reduced our population that I can tell, yet. I had a doe and two youngins this mornI got in the back yard. Several a day is usual. Had five button bucks last month. A good young six pointer chasin a doe in rut a few weeks ago. Harvested numbers are good so far this year as well.

 

[deertrout]

If the story in the link below proves true, I guess it was just a matter of time. I've always been on the fence about what I would do with the meat if I had a deer test positive for CWD. I've always been reluctant to say I'd throw the meat away as there has never been a case of it hopping from cervids to humans. Now that we likely have one two I might rethink that.

Its really interesting to me that these two guys were from the same geographic region. What are the odds? Were these guys doing something abnormal that increased the odds for transmission? I'm sure we're all about to be inundated with speculation from the hunting media.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-hunters-die-consuming-cwd-160020393.html

"According to a new study, published last week in the journal Neurology, that long-discussed and frequently dreaded transmission of CWD from hunter-harvested deer into human beings might have actually occurred in 2022..."

"Those are classic symptoms of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. "Despite aggressive symptomatic treatment of seizures and agitation, the patient’s condition deteriorated and he died within a month of initial presentation," the study goes on to state. "The diagnosis was confirmed postmortem as sporadic CJD."

Given the patients history of consuming CWD-infected deer meat, the authors suggest "a possible novel animal-to-human transmission of CWD." They also studied the case of one of the hunters friends who ate venison from the same deer population. That person recently died from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease as well, the authors says."