Is CWD the Imminent Doom for Hunting?

[JohnJohnson]

If the story in the link below proves true, I guess it was just a matter of time. I've always been on the fence about what I would do with the meat if I had a deer test positive for CWD. I've always been reluctant to say I'd throw the meat away as there has never been a case of it hopping from cervids to humans. Now that we likely have one two I might rethink that.

Its really interesting to me that these two guys were from the same geographic region. What are the odds? Were these guys doing something abnormal that increased the odds for transmission? I'm sure we're all about to be inundated with speculation from the hunting media.

I've gone over it a bit in another thread but for a variety of reasons that case study's abstract has very irresponsible wording. The tl;dr of it is that it's a case study written by an over-eager medical student who's probably trying to be more competitive to become a resident/attending and the senior author (likely Sarah Horn since she's the last author) should have made him reword it to be less declarative. The actual text of the study basically says "Hey look at this rare thing that happened. I don't know, maybe it's CWD?".

Did it make the jump?

Has anyone else seen this? Is it a bogus scare tactic, coincidence or just plain fake news? https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/study-hunters-die-after-consuming-cwd-infected-venison/ar-BB1lNvEl?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=afaf79343bdd4c339a28991606b40d64&ei=41

rokslide.com

 

[DAD]

Just came across the article. Don't know what to think.

 

[mt terry d]

“Might. Possible”
Trust the twenty first century clickbait science.
AKA : Biocracy

 

[Btaylor]

I've gone over it a bit in another thread but for a variety of reasons that case study's abstract has very irresponsible wording. The tl;dr of it is that it's a case study written by an over-eager medical student who's probably trying to be more competitive to become a resident/attending and the senior author (likely Sarah Horn since she's the last author) should have made him reword it to be less declarative. The actual text of the study basically says "Hey look at this rare thing that happened. I don't know, maybe it's CWD?".

Did it make the jump?

Has anyone else seen this? Is it a bogus scare tactic, coincidence or just plain fake news? https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/study-hunters-die-after-consuming-cwd-infected-venison/ar-BB1lNvEl?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=afaf79343bdd4c339a28991606b40d64&ei=41

rokslide.com

Yeah the actual study report that I saw does not provide any evidence that they know for fact that the deer consumed were CWD positive.

 

[DmrbigEshotT]

From Michigan’s big game biologist:

“You'll likely see a lot of this coverage over the next couple of days/weeks. There was recently a study suggesting that two hunters who recently died from sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) may have contracted the disease from eating CWD positive venison. The headline in the publication is jarring: "Two hunters from the same lodge afflicted with sporadic CJD: Is Chronic Wasting Disease to blame?

In reading the article, it's important to note that no formal connection has been detected between CWD and the CJD that afflicted the hunters. Furthermore, there is no evidence presented the individuals consumed CWD positive deer. Clusters of CJD occur both inside and outside of areas where CWD is known to exist similarly. While striving to continually understand the zoonotic potential of diseases should be important, there has been no indication that CWD can be transmitted to humans, and there appears to be a significant barrier between this disease in cervids and humans.”


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[JohnJohnson]

“You'll likely see a lot of this coverage over the next couple of days/weeks. There was recently a study suggesting that two hunters who recently died from sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) may have contracted the disease from eating CWD positive venison. The headline in the publication is jarring: "Two hunters from the same lodge afflicted with sporadic CJD: Is Chronic Wasting Disease to blame?

In reading the article, it's important to note that no formal connection has been detected between CWD and the CJD that afflicted the hunters. Furthermore, there is no evidence presented the individuals consumed CWD positive deer. Clusters of CJD occur both inside and outside of areas where CWD is known to exist similarly. While striving to continually understand the zoonotic potential of diseases should be important, there has been no indication that CWD can be transmitted to humans, and there appears to be a significant barrier between this disease in cervids and humans.”

I'm not Michigan's big game biologist but him basically saying exactly what I did feels good. Love that sweet sweet validation.

 

[Montana'eer]

If the story in the link below proves true, I guess it was just a matter of time. I've always been on the fence about what I would do with the meat if I had a deer test positive for CWD. I've always been reluctant to say I'd throw the meat away as there has never been a case of it hopping from cervids to humans. Now that we likely have one two I might rethink that.

Its really interesting to me that these two guys were from the same geographic region. What are the odds? Were these guys doing something abnormal that increased the odds for transmission? I'm sure we're all about to be inundated with speculation from the hunting media.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-hunters-die-consuming-cwd-160020393.html

"According to a new study, published last week in the journal Neurology, that long-discussed and frequently dreaded transmission of CWD from hunter-harvested deer into human beings might have actually occurred in 2022..."

"Those are classic symptoms of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. "Despite aggressive symptomatic treatment of seizures and agitation, the patient’s condition deteriorated and he died within a month of initial presentation," the study goes on to state. "The diagnosis was confirmed postmortem as sporadic CJD."

Given the patients history of consuming CWD-infected deer meat, the authors suggest "a possible novel animal-to-human transmission of CWD." They also studied the case of one of the hunters friends who ate venison from the same deer population. That person recently died from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease as well, the authors says."

I agree I wish there was a deeper dive into specifics like you mentioned. I won’t stop hunting, but I will avoid areas with high concentrations of CWD and test 100% of the animals I harvest.

 

[huntineveryday]

With the occurrence rate of CJD at 1-2/1,000,000, the statistics of two friends from the same hunting lodge dying from the disease within a short timeframe should at least encourage some investigation into the matter. The abstract pretty clearly states that it isn't enough evidence to determine causation, but it is enough to warrant further investigation and monitoring for similar instances in areas where CWD is prevalent. That seems pretty reasonable to me, and I appreciate that they published the abstract.

It still comes down to your personal risk assessment. If you aren't comfortable eating CWD meat unless there is 0% chance that you will contract CJD, then test and don't consume meat from positive animals. If you are comfortable eating meat from CWD infected animals unless transmission of the disease to humans is proven to happen, then continue eating whatever you want. Most people are probably somewhere in between those points. Do your own research and make your own informed decision.

 

[grfox92]

With the occurrence rate of CJD at 1-2/1,000,000, the statistics of two friends from the same hunting lodge dying from the disease within a short timeframe should at least encourage some investigation into the matter. The abstract pretty clearly states that it isn't enough evidence to determine causation, but it is enough to warrant further investigation and monitoring for similar instances in areas where CWD is prevalent. That seems pretty reasonable to me, and I appreciate that they published the abstract.

It still comes down to your personal risk assessment. If you aren't comfortable eating CWD meat unless there is 0% chance that you will contract CJD, then test and don't consume meat from positive animals. If you are comfortable eating meat from CWD infected animals unless transmission of the disease to humans is proven to happen, then continue eating whatever you want. Most people are probably somewhere in between those points. Do your own research and make your own informed decision.

Food for thought.....

If people were being diagnosed with CJD mistakenly, when they actually contracted CWD from eating game. Then areas like Wisconsin for example where people have been eating it every year, year after year for decades, would have a very high rate of CJD per capita compared to anywhere else. People in those areas eat those deer without testing and could care less.

I live in Wyoming and no one even talks about CWD let alone tests animals that are coming from 50%+ infection rate areas. Everyone is eating it and there's no increase of CJD in these areas.

For the record, I test everything I kill and won't let my family eat anything that hasent been tested. The biologist are always extremely great full when I bring in lymph nodes.

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[huntineveryday]

Food for thought.....

If people were being diagnosed with CJD mistakenly, when they actually contracted CWD from eating game. Then areas like Wisconsin for example where people have been eating it every year, year after year for decades, would have a very high rate of CJD per capita compared to anywhere else. People in those areas eat those deer without testing and could care less.

I live in Wyoming and no one even talks about CWD let alone tests animals that are coming from 50%+ infection rate areas. Everyone is eating it and there's no increase of CJD in these areas.

For the record, I test everything I kill and won't let my family eat anything that hasent been tested. The biologist are always extremely great full when I bring in lymph nodes.

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That is true, and I do agree with the logic. But here's some more food for thought...

With cases of Kuru Disease in Papua New Guinea, incubation period was estimated at 5 years in the shortest case and up to 60 years in longer cases. There were several cases where symptoms didn't show up until 30-40 years down the road. While there are some areas that have higher densities of CWD for a while now, it's still a relatively new disease in a lot of areas. So it could be possible that there is a latency between consumption of infected meat and symptom onset of a longer timeframe and we just haven't seen those higher rates of CJD per capita that correlate with high CWD prevalence appear yet.

Am I saying we need to wait 60 years before thinking we can safely consume CWD positive deer meat? Not at all. At this time, I think there are very plausible arguments to be made that would justify consuming meat and not worrying about CWD, but I think there are also very plausible arguments that it would be prudent to avoid knowingly consuming CWD positive meat because there might be some risk involved. I think hunters should understand the merits of both sides of the argument and decide what they are comfortable with.

 

[HvyBeams]

Food for thought.....

If people were being diagnosed with CJD mistakenly, when they actually contracted CWD from eating game. Then areas like Wisconsin for example where people have been eating it every year, year after year for decades, would have a very high rate of CJD per capita compared to anywhere else. People in those areas eat those deer without testing and could care less.

I live in Wyoming and no one even talks about CWD let alone tests animals that are coming from 50%+ infection rate areas. Everyone is eating it and there's no increase of CJD in these areas.

For the record, I test everything I kill and won't let my family eat anything that hasent been tested. The biologist are always extremely great full when I bring in lymph nodes.

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What areas in WY are 50%? Upper Shoshone has 23% but I haven't seen 50%. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[grfox92]

What areas in WY are 50%? Upper Shoshone has 23% but I haven't seen 50%. Maybe I am missing something.

The biologist told me last year that the area down around Lander was 50 something percent. Also in the bighorn Basin at the base of the bighorns, I dont remember the exact number but it was high enough I know I wouldn't deer hunt there.

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[mt terry d]

Isn't is pretty generally agreed that to kill an animal and throw the meat away isn't right?

I would hope anyone who would not eat an animal they'd killed because it tested + with CWD
would not hunt in areas with confirmed CWD.

Seems the logical and ethical thing to do as hunters.

 

[spike camp]

Isn't is pretty generally agreed that to kill an animal and throw the meat away isn't right?

I would hope anyone who would not eat an animal they'd killed because it tested + with CWD
would not hunt in areas with confirmed CWD.

Seems the logical and ethical thing to do as hunters.

That would have the opposite effect on prevalence rates.
The only way to knock back prevalence rates, is to kill animals.

I live and hunt in a very high cwd area…somewhere close to 50%
I hunt my own land too, as well as a neighbors.
We test every animal and if one tests positive, the meat is discarded.

No qualms about it, other than it total sucks to get positive results back after a lot of work.
I did my part and took yet another positive animal out of the landscape.

 

[tpicou]

Isn't is pretty generally agreed that to kill an animal and throw the meat away isn't right?

I would hope anyone who would not eat an animal they'd killed because it tested + with CWD
would not hunt in areas with confirmed CWD.

Seems the logical and ethical thing to do as hunters.

I’m of the opposite opinion. The most ethical thing you can do as a hunter who cares about conservation biology is to cull and toss the meat.

It’s about population health not an individual animal’s (or even a herd’s) health.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

I’m of the opposite opinion. The most ethical thing you can do as a hunter who cares about conservation biology is to cull and toss the meat.

Why?

Has there ever been any documentation of a herd being decimated by cwd? And not by culling, by the disease itself.

Not that I'm aware of. Ehd? Yes. Cwd? No. In fact the ironic thing is cwd is usually prevalent in a herd that is over objective (more animalsthan ideal). So then we have to kill them to save them?.....

 

[tpicou]

Why?

Has there ever been any documentation of a herd being decimated by cwd? And not by culling, by the disease itself.

Not that I'm aware of. Ehd? Yes. Cwd? No. In fact the ironic thing is cwd is usually prevalent in a herd that is over objective (more animalsthan ideal). So then we have to kill them to save them?.....

They’ve done it in Norway with reindeer and then had a couple years of zero positive tests until it showed back up. Dunno if they’ll do it again because it’s a difficult lift politically.

“Hunting as conservation” is about disregarding the individual for the species. It’s no different with herds or regional populations.

Edit: Oh sorry I gave an example of successfully getting rid of it by culling. I mean yeah, you don’t want a disease to rip through populations because it causes decline. Is your thought that you don’t care if a disease spreads and kills animals?

Chronic Wasting Disease Drives Population Decline of White-Tailed Deer

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is an invariably fatal transmissible spongiform encephalopathy of white-tailed deer, mule deer, elk, and moose. Despite a 100% fatality rate, areas of high prevalence, and increasingly expanding geographic endemic areas, little is known about the population-level...

journals.plos.org

Endemic chronic wasting disease causes mule deer population decline in Wyoming

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal transmissible spongiform encephalopathy affecting white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus), Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni), and moose (Alces alces shirasi) in North America. In southeastern Wyoming average...

journals.plos.org

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

No my thought is cwd, to my knowledge, has never caused a dramatic population reduction in a specific herd that had a high prevalence. Other diseases do.

Just an observation

 

[tpicou]

No my thought is cwd, to my knowledge, has never caused a dramatic population reduction in a specific herd that had a high prevalence. Other diseases do.

Why?

Oh sorry yeah misread that. Here are two studies that show population decline in endemic CWD areas for white tail and mule deer.

I think a reason it’s not as apparent as other disease is that it kills slowly and we basically breed deer like rabbits in the US. It is definitely fatal, though. So I’m of the opinion that it’s better to not have it than to have it. So I have zero issue thinning out populations and not eating meat (out of an abundance of caution) if it means slowing the spread. Also, I’m kind of biased because you can kill as deer as you want where I am so like…tossing a few is whatever? I get the hesitation for people that don’t have that blessing/curse (we have way too many deer).

Endemic chronic wasting disease causes mule deer population decline in Wyoming

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal transmissible spongiform encephalopathy affecting white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus), Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni), and moose (Alces alces shirasi) in North America. In southeastern Wyoming average...

journals.plos.org

Chronic Wasting Disease Drives Population Decline of White-Tailed Deer

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is an invariably fatal transmissible spongiform encephalopathy of white-tailed deer, mule deer, elk, and moose. Despite a 100% fatality rate, areas of high prevalence, and increasingly expanding geographic endemic areas, little is known about the population-level...

journals.plos.org

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Cwd is not going away. But I guess they can kill all the deer and elk to try and save them. Makes sense.