Interesting bullet expansion study.

[35WhelenAI]

Copper bullets and lead based bullets both arrive at a means to an end, a dead animal. Objecting to copper based on principle, I get it. When the results in the field are similar with respect to a dead animal on the ground, the stance that copper is compromising results vs lead in some hunting situations loses its luster.

However, reality says copper bullets are on the way in and lead bullets are not, regardless of what a test shows. I do like the bonded bullets and have always been on the side of expanded weight retention/penetration. If there were more bonded options back in the day (30 years ago) I may have leaned toward them. But the 30 years of experience has shown no difference in effectiveness in providing dead animals with lead core (bonded or cup and core) vs copper. Only difference I would call out is in the amount of meat damaged or rendered undesireable for consumption with lead bullets.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Another issue is the need to change barrels for an acceptable twist for copper. I'm under the program if ain't broke don't fix it. If you are scared to death of lead in the lungs - take them with you when leave.

What eats my gut piles are coyotes and ravens. Both need to die but I yet to even see a sick one that I didn't have a hand in on purpose.

 

[Formidilosus]

That the bullet is creating a larger wound channel, and penetrating further?

Weight retention does not at all tell you what size the wound will be, except that the more weight retention, overall the narrower the wound be will. Expansion diameter also does not tell you much- the difference between an expanded diameter of .4” and .6” doesn’t do much in tissue. Also, a larger expanded diameter can, and often does reduce penetration due to frontal area.

The only way to determine how deep a bullet will penetrate and how wide a wound it creates along the way is to shoot it into tissue, or properly calibrated tissue simulate at varying impact velocities and measure the wounds.

 

[Warmsy]

Weight retention does not at all tell you what size the wound will be, except that the more weight retention, overall the narrower the wound be will.

Is this statement based on the real world results in game? In theory, I would think that more weight retention, with proper expansion according to design, would make a larger wound vs. a bullet that broke apart?

Expansion diameter also does not tell you much- the difference between an expanded diameter of .4” and .6” doesn’t do much in tissue. Also, a larger expanded diameter can, and often does reduce penetration due to frontal area.

The only way to determine how deep a bullet will penetrate and how wide a wound it creates along the way is to shoot it into tissue, or properly calibrated tissue simulate at varying impact velocities and measure the wounds.

In your opinion, would a smaller diameter with higher penetration be preferable than lower penetration with larger diameter?

 

[Formidilosus]

Is this statement based on the real world results in game?

Yes. Lots. And lots of medically peer reviewed terminal ballistics research.

In theory, I would think that more weight retention, with proper expansion according to design, would make a larger wound vs. a bullet that broke apart?

No. This is a good start. Read it all-

Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

This is going to be a barrage of questions. It will help to view me as a skeptic relative to the matter at hand. I am going to do some load development for my new 6mm Creed. I live in the southeast where shots are rarely taken at more than 100 yards. But, I fancy that I will take a trip out...

rokslide.com

In your opinion, would a smaller diameter with higher penetration be preferable than lower penetration with larger diameter?

Neither. Thats not really a trade off that has to be made. My preference is to get sufficient penetration to reach vitals in the front half with as wide a wound channel as possible, than modulate how much damage is down by shooting the smallest cartridge that will reliably do so.

This is probably the best single source of legitimate information about how bullets kill in the internet. I would highly suggest reading it, in its entirety- there is pertinent information spread throughout-

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[Warmsy]

Yes. Lots. And lots of medically peer reviewed terminal ballistics research.




No. This is a good start. Read it all-

Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

This is going to be a barrage of questions. It will help to view me as a skeptic relative to the matter at hand. I am going to do some load development for my new 6mm Creed. I live in the southeast where shots are rarely taken at more than 100 yards. But, I fancy that I will take a trip out...

rokslide.com

Neither. Thats not really a trade off that has to be made. My preference is to get sufficient penetration to reach vitals in the front half with as wide a wound channel as possible, than modulate how much damage is down by shooting the smallest cartridge that will reliably do so.

This is probably the best single source of legitimate information about how bullets kill in the internet. I would highly suggest reading it, in its entirety- there is pertinent information spread throughout-

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

The more I learn the less I know. Appreciate it.

 

[hereinaz]

The more I learn the less I know. Appreciate it.

That’s the way I felt when I started shooting as I got into hunting. Those threads will give you a lot of good information.

Be warned, it might break your brain, lol. So many things I thought were true are just wrong.