What mono to use

[Bluefish]

It'll be interesting if a tipped .358 197 Hammer can have a better BC by a margin that makes any difference (or at all) vs a .358 200 TTSX. By necessity (.358, 200 gr, mono construction), they need to be similar in form/shape and I personally don't see it happening. Barnes gets their BC from shooting in a 300 yd underground tunnel based on time of flight and are historically pretty close to real world results.

The Barnes is about .37, claimed is .369 if I remember correctly. the wounding mechanism between the two is different, Barnes with its pedal opening and Hammer with pedal shedding. Hammer claims a lower minimum velocity, which could extend range on some of my rifles which don’t have the mv of the whelen.

If the bc is close to the Barnes, I will give the hammers a try. Hammer is claiming over .4. I do know that the hunter hammers are only .03-.04 overstated, so these might be right in line with the Barnes. My personal hypothesis is that hammer calculated bc for the bullet shape without taking into account the hollow point. Change that hole diameter and drag goes up. Adding a tip should help.

 

[35WhelenAI]

The Barnes is about .37, claimed is .369 if I remember correctly. the wounding mechanism between the two is different, Barnes with its pedal opening and Hammer with pedal shedding. Hammer claims a lower minimum velocity, which could extend range on some of my rifles which don’t have the mv of the whelen.

If the bc is close to the Barnes, I will give the hammers a try. Hammer is claiming over .4. I do know that the hunter hammers are only .03-.04 overstated, so these might be right in line with the Barnes. My personal hypothesis is that hammer calculated bc for the bullet shape without taking into account the hollow point. Change that hole diameter and drag goes up. Adding a tip should help.

I like Hammers design, it's a great counter to the original mono design that Barnes created. One sends petals shedding outward, the other maintains full weight. Seems there isn't a middle ground in mono bullet design. Either weight retention and exiting penetration or loss of weight on expansion and a caliber diameter hole punching it's way out. Two good ways to fill the freezer.

On the BC subject, Barnes .358 200 TSX with small tip opening is a full .085 lower in BC (.284 vs .369 TTSX) and the 225 TSX with small tip opening is .359. From that comparative standpoint, .358 Hammers look to have a similar large cavity filled with the tip like the Barnes TTSX. IMO, with that size cavity/tip feature similarly dictating overall bullet shape that is where I come to the thought the Hammer can't/won't have an appreciable difference in BC if the two could be compared side by side. Just talking for the sake of discussion here.

 

[Bluefish]

I like Hammers design, it's a great counter to the original mono design that Barnes created. One sends petals shedding outward, the other maintains full weight. Seems there isn't a middle ground in mono bullet design. Either weight retention and exiting penetration or loss of weight on expansion and a caliber diameter hole punching it's way out. Two good ways to fill the freezer.

On the BC subject, Barnes .358 200 TSX with small tip opening is a full .085 lower in BC (.284 vs .369 TTSX) and the 225 TSX with small tip opening is .359. From that comparative standpoint, .358 Hammers look to have a similar large cavity filled with the tip like the Barnes TTSX. IMO, with that size cavity/tip feature similarly dictating overall bullet shape that is where I come to the thought the Hammer can't/won't have an appreciable difference in BC if the two could be compared side by side. Just talking for the sake of discussion here.

I am ordering some to try. I do like how easy the hammers are to load and they have worked well. If bc is good, they may be my new choice. I would like a tipped 180g with say a .3+ bc offering. I am slowly coming to the belief that lighter and faster is better with solids. I hope to try 160g CE Raptors on an animal today or tomorrow. I have used the 150g brass and had mixed results.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good luck, look forward to hearing if you get something today.

 

[Cutting Edge Bullets_D]

Have you tried Cutting Edge?

 

[Bluefish]

Good luck, look forward to hearing if you get something today.

Sorry for the zombie thread, but I did get 3 whitetail with the 160g CE in a 35 cal last year. A spine shot at 150 yards, drt. Double lung at 75 yards, ran 40 yards, huge blood trail. Front shot to chest, took out one femur, ran 50 yards, no blood. Overall they worked well. Was around 2700 mv from a 358 jdj. Could have pushed them faster with a 35w.

 

[bpro2001]

Have you tried Cutting Edge?

Only for accuracy, which you are spot on. I havnt gotten a chance to hunt with them yet. I am curious what i should look at for more fragmenty in your line.

 

[Cutting Edge Bullets_D]

Only for accuracy, which you are spot on. I havnt gotten a chance to hunt with them yet. I am curious what i should look at for more fragmenty in your line.

Personally - I am much more a hunter than anything and I gravitated towards the Maximus line for the price and performance (hunting)

 

[HNTR918]

Barnes LRX

 

[PLhunter]

I’ve taken game with Barnes, cutting edge, hammers, and badlands bullets. They all work. Hammers are definitely the easiest to shoot and the one that I can hand a handful of hand loads to anyone with that chambering and have them shoot their best group. The badlands bc’s were incredible and I still have around 500 of them. But in my gun I never got them better than .75-1.5 moa in a 5 shot group.

Cutting edge have been either way and a lot of variation from rifle to rifle. The Maximus line is cheap for what you get and should be better on terminal performance than the MTH line.

Barnes work but the pedal shedding of the other designs buys a lot of forgiveness on shot placement. In multiple kills I’ve had the pedals on a lung shot cut the spinal cord or put a hole in the heart. We’ve had radiated pedal exits out to 300 yards. I have had the pedals cause some excess damage too. Especially if you hit back in the liver area. The pedals will get into the guts. Most wounds are pretty clean but, especially, with the 124 HH wounds were occasionally a bit excessive with 50% or more of the bullet fragmenting under 200 yards.

I’ve been shooting the 120 hbc and 69.5 hbc and they seem to have the same forgiveness. 1/2 minute accuracy at first seating depth in the 120 and 1 minute with the 69.5 (its a Thompson contender and the 1 minute holds up very well to distance. Super easy load work up same as the rest of the line up.

 

[Cutting Edge Bullets_D]

I’ve taken game with Barnes, cutting edge, hammers, and badlands bullets. They all work. Hammers are definitely the easiest to shoot and the one that I can hand a handful of hand loads to anyone with that chambering and have them shoot their best group. The badlands bc’s were incredible and I still have around 500 of them. But in my gun I never got them better than .75-1.5 moa in a 5 shot group.

Cutting edge have been either way and a lot of variation from rifle to rifle. The Maximus line is cheap for what you get and should be better on terminal performance than the MTH line.

Barnes work but the pedal shedding of the other designs buys a lot of forgiveness on shot placement. In multiple kills I’ve had the pedals on a lung shot cut the spinal cord or put a hole in the heart. We’ve had radiated pedal exits out to 300 yards. I have had the pedals cause some excess damage too. Especially if you hit back in the liver area. The pedals will get into the guts. Most wounds are pretty clean but, especially, with the 124 HH wounds were occasionally a bit excessive with 50% or more of the bullet fragmenting under 200 yards.

I’ve been shooting the 120 hbc and 69.5 hbc and they seem to have the same forgiveness. 1/2 minute accuracy at first seating depth in the 120 and 1 minute with the 69.5 (its a Thompson contender and the 1 minute holds up very well to distance. Super easy load work up same as the rest of the line up.

I will obviously challenge everyone to try our Maximus for hunting!

 

[PLhunter]

I will obviously challenge everyone to try our Maximus for hunting!

I was planning on it for my 6 arc. But that ssk barrel was a dud. 3-5 moa with everything not just the Maximus. I have your 125 Maximus for the creedmoor. Shot very well but I hit pressure early and at a velocity lower than expected. Going to try another powder and see if I can get those velocity numbers up a bit without pressure.

 

[Cutting Edge Bullets_D]

if you ever have questions for a load... feel free to send a message. What powder were you running?

 

[SDHNTR]

if you ever have questions for a load... feel free to send a message. What powder were you running?

Why is the factory loaded 6.5c so slow?

 

[Cutting Edge Bullets_D]

Why is the factory loaded 6.5c so slow?

In CEB factory loaded Maxmimus ammunition 6.5cm?

if you tried our stuff, what barrel length and velocities were you getting?

 

[SDHNTR]

In CEB factory loaded Maxmimus ammunition 6.5cm?

if you tried our stuff, what barrel length and velocities were you getting?

Yes. No I haven’t tried it. Just what’s quoted on your website. 2681 MV with a 125gr.

 

[Cutting Edge Bullets_D]

you're right - We are a little lower than what we want to be. On our next loading we will be hotter for sure.

 

[z987k]

I will obviously challenge everyone to try our Maximus for hunting!

I've shot a moose with the 200gr 44cal raptor from an 1892. 15 yards. Worked as advertised with the front coming off. Didn't exit.
They're the only handgun hunting mono that seems to be worth using.

 

[PLhunter]

you're right - We are a little lower than what we want to be. On our next loading we will be hotter for sure.

Aren’t there some issues with the seal tite band and some tighter throats/bores? I recall some shooters finding extreme pressure with starting loads.

I was using 6.5 Staball and I think starting with 43.5 grains with the 125 Maximus. Velocity was 2850 out of a 24 inch factory tube. So not terrible but already had difficult bolt lift and ejector marks.

With 44.3 grains Staball with the 125 badlands I get 2880 fps. The 124 HH 2980 with 44.5 rl-16.

 

[SDHNTR]

Yes, I have custom barrels on most of my guns. That band thingy intimidates me from trying them. Is it solving a problem that’s not a problem?