I’m not much into politics, but man this burns my a**

[BigSky]

This has been an interesting thread. Especially so with respect to individual expectations. The fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, businesses exist to make profit for the owner or owners. Even the most capitalistic amongst us seem to cringe at that statement; but, it is a fact. Sure, I surrender the fact that there are businesses that are started by some well-meaning individual(s) with the sole purpose of helping their fellow man; but, even those very few entities need to make a profit.

If anybody starts a one-man shop and can make a million dollars profit, he/she may be satisfied. Everything that individual does from that point forward should be to maximize profits. They can stop there or, maybe risk money to expand in hopes of making more money. They can sell out at any time. They can hire 100 other people and maybe make 2 million dollars themselves the next year. They don't owe me a job. They don't owe me benefits. They don't owe me better prices or better value. All of those things, from the owner's standpoint, are, correctly so, means to an end. They are legitimate means to legitimate ends.

If the time comes to sell said business for a billion dollars and the owner(s) want (s) to sell, they should have at it. Well Big Sky you say, what if it means all of those people lose their jobs. Well, tough rockos baby. Hey, it happened to me; but, the company didn't owe me anything other than my pay and benefits for my work.

Voids in the market will always be filled. Competition is good for consumers and the market, as a whole. It seems it always comes down to whose ox is being gored.

 

[Plainsman79]

How is it shady to invest and want a return? This happens all the time as businesses grow. Do you want no growth?

Also wonder what would of happened to Cabela’s had Singer not invested? Would they of not needed to have as many employees as they did for many years due to lack of growth? Growth takes money and people love to hate on wealth today but wealth is what pays your bills even if your self employed.

Do poor people make great investors, will a homeless man pay you to work on his stuff?

Just things to consider, can’t look at only one side of the picture. Sidney prospered for many many years off his investment into Cabela’s. Cabela’s was good to the town but all good things come to an end.

I personally have been through 4 mergers and a bankruptcy in my career, somehow I survived and continued to prosper.

Maybe Cabela’s fault was offering those jobs in the first place if it effected the community so much. Maybe all those people that had great jobs in a small community shouldn’t of had the chance since it wasn’t a forever deal. I think they would disagree and be happy that they had the opportunity while it lasted.

Looking at both sides of the picture you have some very valid points.

This Singer guy is worth over 3 Billion dollars. Let me repeat that over 3 BILLION. He has more money than he could ever spend in a lifetime and probably for the next 5 generations.

So when does it become a morals or American values issue? The guy purposely put 2,000 Americans out of a job for his own benefit. For What? To increase his net worth? There’s a reason this practice is outlawed in the UK. Because it’s morally wrong. This country was built by honest hard working people that wanted to better not only themselves but the good of the people (our country). Singer has 1 objective, Greed.

Sustainability, he already has more than he needs. Do you kill extra antlerless animals every year even though you already have a freezer full of meat? If so, do you let the meat go to waste or do you give away (for the good of the people)?

 

[LostArra]

The reason these company takeovers/acquisitions/whatever appear so distasteful to the public at large and this forum in particular is that hedge funds managers are making their decisions based on stock prices, company valuations and financial statements, not individual workers, towns or even the company's products.

Most Rokslide posts regarding Cabelas have to do with a falling level of quality or availability of their products. I'm still bummed that the original Microtex clothing was phased out regardless of who "owns" the company. Elliot Management wouldn't know Microtex from Jockey shorts.

Trick kids into getting useless degrees and saddle them with thousands of $ of debt that they can never get rid of and BOOM they got you. But that is a discussion for another thread perhaps.

Predatory student loan/uncontrolled college tuition is just as criminal as the sub-prime housing debacle.

 

[Halleywood]

Predatory student loan/uncontrolled college tuition is just as criminal as the sub-prime housing debacle.

100% agree

 

[5MilesBack]

So we are all beholden to the market - we are commodities to be traded or abandoned at will so the bottom line performs for a select few.

should I tell the guy who was fired after 28 years simply because the company needed to show a better profit so it could be sold not to get emotional?

I Hope you never end up in a hospital like I mentioned above. It is run purely for profit to the detriment of its employees AND the patients. When an entire floor of nurses quits and are simply replaced by travelers and no one cares, YOU suffer.

but I’ll try not to get emotional after watching people get shitty care that affects them negatively for the remainder of their life. How dare I...

You're assuming that profits come at the expense of quality service. The market will in fact wash those companies out.......if the market is allowed to operate. These days we have so much government intervention into "the free market" that it hardly runs as free or efficiently as it should. But then those that complain the most about these inefficiencies and problems continue to vote for those representatives that want to control them the most........which is what created the problem in the first place. We see this first hand with government run healthcare.

 

[Halleywood]

I suggest reading through Paul Singer's Wiki page. His group buys distressed debt from companies and countries and sues to force them to pay it off. The reason isn't for profit. According to his own words: "Singer and EMC defend their model[4] as "a fight against charlatans who refuse to play by the market's rules",[18] "

Don't blame him though...he was raised that way.

 

[30338]

Curious where the parents are when the kids are getting tricked into predatory student loans by the federal government. I mean the federal government took over the student load industry and since that day, student loan debt has exploded.

So when the government throws money at very poorly educated high school students with clueless parents and then the kids get stupid degrees is it the idiot parents faults, the idiot kids faults or the federal government? Just curious.

 

[30338]

Sounds like there is going to be some great deals in Sidney for below market price real estate. If some retirees didn't save quite enough to live where they want, they could buy a lower priced house, play a little golf on the local courses, fish and hunt and live cheap. So where one loses, another wins. Typically how it works. I like where I am at, or I'd look at buying some of that distressed real estate. Nice win for some folks in the near future there.

 

[LostArra]

So when the government throws money at very poorly educated high school students with clueless parents and then the kids get stupid degrees is it the idiot parents faults, the idiot kids faults or the federal government? Just curious.

Include the colleges at the top of your list and then I would say "All of the above".
Of course, buying stuff you can't afford is the American way.

 

[5MilesBack]

I will not look past the waste, fraud, cronyism for big pharma, bankruptcies and ruined finances from medical bills, political efforts to limit care to people who cannot afford care, the limiting of access to basic and preventative care (which has the largest potential savings and improvement in public health outcomes for the lowest cost) as a political prybar. We in the medical profession advocate for policy and legislation changes that would address all these flaws in our national system, we have done so for decades.

Healthcare shouldn't be political at all. The government shouldn't be anywhere near it. Healthcare should be personal......between me and my provider......period. If I can't afford to go see my provider, I stay home until I can afford it or work out a deal with them. Heck, I have two healthcare insurance policies which end up paying 100% between them, and I still don't go most the time.

 

[Halleywood]

Curious where the parents are when the kids are getting tricked into predatory student loans by the federal government. I mean the federal government took over the student load industry and since that day, student loan debt has exploded.

So when the government throws money at very poorly educated high school students with clueless parents and then the kids get stupid degrees is it the idiot parents faults, the idiot kids faults or the federal government? Just curious.

It's starts with parenting 100%. But a ton of baby boomer parents were too worried about their boat, lake place, vacation home, etc. to help their kids get out from under the banking system's thumb. But to be clear, the government guarantees that debt only. Banks still own the debt; it can't be discharged in bankruptcy; and the government backs it. Win Win Win for the banks.
I've been out of school for almost 20 years and i'm still paying off my student loans. Fortunately my degree isn't in 17th century studies so i have been able to actually use my degree to get a good job. My parents made sure I understood the consequences of going into debt.

 

[tdhanses]

Looking at both sides of the picture you have some very valid points.

This Singer guy is worth over 3 Billion dollars. Let me repeat that over 3 BILLION. He has more money than he could ever spend in a lifetime and probably for the next 5 generations.

So when does it become a morals or American values issue? The guy purposely put 2,000 Americans out of a job for his own benefit. For What? To increase his net worth? There’s a reason this practice is outlawed in the UK. Because it’s morally wrong. This country was built by honest hard working people that wanted to better not only themselves but the good of the people (our country). Singer has 1 objective, Greed.

Sustainability, he already has more than he needs. Do you kill extra antlerless animals every year even though you already have a freezer full of meat? If so, do you let the meat go to waste or do you give away (for the good of the people)?

And how many people do you think this Billionaire has made millionaires, afforded the ability for people to put kids through college, retire comfortably. Sorry but if you invest $1 do you expect only a $1 return, why invest? Why help build something that will benefit many others? Societies don’t become better because of we all just should live great lives, they are better because we strive to succeed.

Sorry but worth means nothing, if you invest no matter how much you expect a return. Let’s say you buy a small welding shop that employees 2 people, you invest everything you have into this and to grow 10 fold in profit and employees, should you not sell it because you may effect the people? No you sell if, pocket half the earnings and start over again.

If people don’t want to worry about an income make your own way, don’t help others make their way, if that makes sense. Don’t expect for me to give you a great opportunity and yet not get my investment back when I want it.

The problem today is too many people aren’t self employed and then think they are owed a career.

Like I said earlier been through many mergers and a bankruptcy, about to go through another merger if the dumb AG’s stop their political crap and let it happen. Some people will lose their jobs, those that can’t adapte to change will have the worst of the experience but there will be tons of opportunity if you are open minded.

 

[tdhanses]

The reason these company takeovers/acquisitions/whatever appear so distasteful to the public at large and this forum in particular is that hedge funds managers are making their decisions based on stock prices, company valuations and financial statements, not individual workers, towns or even the company's products.

Most Rokslide posts regarding Cabelas have to do with a falling level of quality or availability of their products. I'm still bummed that the original Microtex clothing was phased out regardless of who "owns" the company. Elliot Management wouldn't know Microtex from Jockey shorts.



Predatory student loan/uncontrolled college tuition is just as criminal as the sub-prime housing debacle.

Yup, it is based on everything we are taught in school on how to properly analyze a valuation of a company. Investments and returns have nothing to do with people.

I’d be interested to know how many millionaires live in Sidney, the overall financial health of those that live there compared to other communities in NE.

Sidney would of suffered long before if Cabela’s hadn’t grown like it did.

 

[Halleywood]

Healthcare shouldn't be political at all. The government shouldn't be anywhere near it. Healthcare should be personal......between me and my provider......period. If I can't afford to go see my provider, I stay home until I can afford it or work out a deal with them. Heck, I have two healthcare insurance policies which end up paying 100% between them, and I still don't go most the time.

The "not being political ship" has sailed long ago. When pharma got liability protection by the government it became political. When the CDC starting buying vaccines it got more political. When politicians line their pockets with pharma money it gets even more political. We are where we are in this country...simple fact is the government has it's hands in everything and it won't be changing in the foreseeable future.

 

[5MilesBack]

I suggest reading through Paul Singer's Wiki page. His group buys distressed debt from companies and countries and sues to force them to pay it off. The reason isn't for profit. According to his own words: "Singer and EMC defend their model[4] as "a fight against charlatans who refuse to play by the market's rules",[18] "

Don't blame him though...he was raised that way.

Sounds like he was raised well. I shake my head every time one of those commercials comes on telling people "You don't have to pay back all your debt, just call us and we'll get you a deal where you only have to pay 1% of it". Unfortunately, that's America today........individually and as a nation.

 

[5MilesBack]

The "not being political ship" has sailed long ago. When pharma got liability protection by the government it became political. When the CDC starting buying vaccines it got more political. When politicians line their pockets with pharma money it gets even more political. We are where we are in this country...simple fact is the government has it's hands in everything and it won't be changing in the foreseeable future.

We know. And the only thing left........is the bankruptcy of our nation.......one-world government.......one-world currency........etc. We already know how this all ends.

But I have to laugh every time someone complains about drug and healthcare costs, and then votes liberal. If the liberals had left the free market alone and kept the government out of it, the market would dictate the cost models based on supply and demand. If you don't want to pay that $10k for drugs.........you don't. If there's no demand at $10k, they have to lower the price or stop making it. Pretty simple.......the market is efficient if it's allowed to be. But as soon as the government stepped in, that was all she wrote. But then a lot of people still seem to think that liberals are the best choice. SMH

 

[Halleywood]

Sounds like he was raised well. I shake my head every time one of those commercials comes on telling people "You don't have to pay back all your debt, just call us and we'll get you a deal where you only have to pay 1% of it". Unfortunately, that's America today........individually and as a nation.

I'm all for everyone paying off their debts in full. However, you convince some irresponsible person/entity/country into massive amounts of debt, then have it guaranteed by you and me (government guarantee, government bailout, etc.) while you have no risk but cash in on the rewards. It's predatory lending.

 

[tdhanses]

I'm all for everyone paying off their debts in full. However, you convince some irresponsible person/entity/country into massive amounts of debt, then have it guaranteed by you and me (government guarantee, government bailout, etc.) while you have no risk but cash in on the rewards. It's predatory lending.

And it’s all because of big government, why wouldn’t the banks say hell yeah we’ll take that deal. Can’t blame the lenders only, look at the colleges and what they are doing with tuition.

 

[Halleywood]

We know. And the only thing left........is the bankruptcy of our nation.......one-world government.......one-world currency........etc. We already know how this all ends.

But I have to laugh every time someone complains about drug and healthcare costs, and then votes liberal. If the liberals had left the free market alone and kept the government out of it, the market would dictate the cost models based on supply and demand. If you don't want to pay that $10k for drugs.........you don't. If there's no demand at $10k, they have to lower the price or stop making it. Pretty simple.......the market is efficient if it's allowed to be. But as soon as the government stepped in, that was all she wrote. But then a lot of people still seem to think that liberals are the best choice. SMH

I can't disagree with you. But I will say "conservatives" are no better. Look at the policies of the libs today and that will be what the "conservatives" back in 5 years. It's been happening for decades and decades (see abortion; gay marriage; women in mililtary just to name a few). Conservatives don't conserve anything. They are pathetic. At least the libs tell you up front they hate you and want to take your $hit. Conservatives pretend they are on your side but then do nothing to back it up. When have the conservatives shrank the government; reduced spending; got out of the way of "free market"? It simply doesn't happen. There are 3 classes in this country: The rich elite class; the political class (R's & D's); and the rest of us.
Sorry to the OP for taking high jacking the thread.

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm all for everyone paying off their debts in full. However, you convince some irresponsible person/entity/country into massive amounts of debt, then have it guaranteed by you and me (government guarantee, government bailout, etc.) while you have no risk but cash in on the rewards. It's predatory lending.

Again........what's the common denominator in all that? Government involvement. And people keep voting for even more government involvement and less citizen control and ability to fight a tyrannical government. It's mindboggling.