Ideal Bear Defense Long Gun?

[drra]

Lots of firearms to choose from, I would be picking compact with power and hope to be doing a comparable trip in Alaska in retirement.

 

[Bill Flynn]

My long gun choice would be any 12 guage pump shotgun with buck shot.

 

[RMP]

Old thread. But I'll contribute anyway.

IMO, the very best shotgun available for bear defense is going to be a Mossberg 500 or 590 with an extended magazine and bead front sight. I think it beats any and every other shotgun for bear defense. Why?
1) It has a one piece bolt, non-rotating, with dual extractors.
2) It's action is sloppy enough to feed anything, even when dirty.
3) It has the safety in the right place.
4) The 500 and 590 do not have overbored barrels. A slight overbore, like Browning's Invector + will handle foster type slugs fairly well since the slug will obturate, or bellow out, to fill a slightly oversized bore, so Foster slugs shoot relatively well out of them. But accuracy with Brennekes is poor. The Mossberg 835 with their "10 gauge" bore barrels are poor choices for slugs. The 500 and 590s are standard bore and handle both fosters and Brennekes very well. Brenneke is what you want to go with. Either the Black Magic Magnum or the Magnum Crush. The Green Lightnings are no slouch either.
5) They have a 3" chambers and aren't all that sensistive to OAL spent carttridge length. If you want to use buckshot too, you want a lot of shot, or as much as poossible, at a high velocity. Winchester Double X 3" at 1,450 fps is about the best readily available buckshot round out there right now.
6) It has side eject. Bottom eject guns like the Ithaca M37 and the Browning BPS have to eject past the shell lifter. Anyone that has shot an M37s any length of time will tell you they can get out of timing and jam occassionally. When they get out of timing, you can pump a round right out of the mag onto the ground. If the shell hangs up in the shell lifter, you have to really work to unjam it. M37s can be very sensitive to OAL of a spent shell. Browning is more modern and a little more reliable, but I've had hangup cycling BPS fast with some types of ammo.
7) It's a pump. It is simply going to be more reliable than a semi, especially if it gets really dirty.

I also recommend the simple front bead front sight. And then adding the HiViz plain barrel front sight to it.
With a little practice, you will be able to regularly hit a 4-5" cirle at 100 yard using Brennekes with this gun. At 50 yards and under, you'll be able to cloverleaf your shots.

I don't like rotating bolt pumps for self defense. Most current pump guns with rotating bolts open upon firing. An action that opens itself partially can be disconcerting, and add to confusion in a desperate sitation. Also, they all have a single extractors. And I have had that single extractor slip off certain brands of shells (ie Hornady) leaving the spent shell half out of the chamber. Not something you want to have happen when you are facing a bear.

I think the Remington 870 is pretty good, but it has a single extractor, too, and the safety is not in the optimal spot. The Mossberg's is where it should be. Guns like the Benelli Super Nova have the safety in front of the trigger in a trigger gaurd recess. I think this placement is worst of all for a self defense gun.

The Mossberg 500/590 hits all the marks. It's realtively inexpensive, and a bit unrefined. But it's reliable and accurate.

If you've already made your decision, hope you practice a lot with it. Proper practice leaves you with a nicely brusied shoulder.

 

[49ereric]

Unless your 835 has a rifled slug barrel

 

[RMP]

You'll do better with the types of slugs you'd want for serious bear defense with a smooth bore. If you want to pack in a few buckshot rounds along with them, even more so.

 

[TaperPin]

This is fun reading all the comments.

My tag along rifle for salmon fishing in AK was a very light stainless Remington 375 h&h with peep sight. For practice we used fired 12 ga hulls at 25 yards - pick up gun and fire quick - with just 10 rounds of practice every other week it’s reassuring how quick someone can accurately empty a rifle and hit the hulls 90% of the time.

I ran into a retired federal or state wildlife guy who used to be one of the guys an agency could call if there was a serious bear problem. He would fly to the area and circle until the bear was found - if it looked dead he’d fly pretty low to see if it would wake up or not. Once a game plan is figured out, he’d land and go to the place he saw the bear. If it wasn’t there he’d get back in the plane and repeat as many times as necessary.
His rifle was a custom Mauser/Brno in 416 Rem with iron sights on a 20” barrel. Really interesting guy.

 

[BjornF16]

@Matt Magolan

How was the expedition?

What did you carry for bear defense?

 

[PNWGATOR]

Glad this thread resurfaced as I didn’t catch it during the initial development.

Personally, I’d choose an M4 in 556 with 77TMKs, LPV, light and suppressor.

Simple and easy decision.

 

[BjornF16]

Glad this thread resurfaced as I didn’t catch it during the initial development.

Personally, I’d choose an M4 in 556 with 77TMKs, LPV, light and suppressor.

Simple and easy decision.

Mounties might have something to say about that…unfortunately

 

[PNWGATOR]

Mounties might have something to say about that…unfortunately

Tell me more!

100% open mind

 

[Dan Plantz]

Hey everyone,

We are going to be canoeing the length of the Mackenzie River (1100 Miles from Hay River to Tuktoyaktuk) in the Northwest Territories of Canada this summer (2023) and I thought I had my, Canada Legal, bear defense guns sorted out. This will be for defense against Grizzly and potentially Polar Bear as we reach the Arctic Ocean at the end of the expedition. We were going to take the following:

1 X Stoeger M3000 Semi Auto Freedom Defense 12 Gauge with Pistol Grip shotgun 5 + 1
Ammo: Brenneke 3" Black Magic Magnum Slugs (Stoeger would be 6 + 1 with 3" Mags) TAYLOR KNOCKOUT FOMRULA AT 25 YDS = 76
1X Retay Masai Mara Warden 12 Gauge shotgun 4 + 1
Ammo: Brenneke Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetrating Magnum 2 3/4" (This would maintain the 4 +1 capacity) TAYLOR KNOCKOUT FOMRULA AT 25 YDS = 84

Unfortunately, Canada's gun laws may change soon, making even some hunting shotguns/rifles illegal (Namely if the firearm can hold, or there are parts to make it hold, more than 5 rounds in the magazine/tube it will be a RESTRICTED firearm in Canada and hence, illegal). So...our Stoeger would be illegal, as would any shotgun for which there were factory or aftermarket magazine extensions available. Which is pretty much most semi-automatic shotguns on the market that are worth carrying (Benelli M2, Beretta 1300, etc.).

I'm considering the following for a replacement for the Stoeger:

Benelli R1 .338 Win Mag with a 24" Barrel
Ammo: 250 grain Swift A-frame Bear Hammer from Pendleton Ammunition (2600 FPS from a 24" Barrel) TAYLOR KNOCKOUT FOMRULA AT 25 YDS = 31

What I really want is for Benelli to make the following:

Benelli R1 in 35 Whelen with an 18 1/2" - 20" Barrel. 5 round magazine + 1 in the chamber. Iron sights and a rail on the receiver for a quick acquisition type optic
Ammo: Hendershots Extreme Custom 35 Whelen 280 Grain Swift A-Frame TAYLOR KNOCKOUT FOMRULA AT 25 YDS = 32

In my opinion, this would be the ultimate woodsman/ Bear Defense rifle.

I am basing my caliber/ammo combination decisions off of the Taylor Knockout Formula, which can be found here:

Taylor KO Calculator | Energy | Momentum | Bullet

It is an interesting formula.

Remember, this is for defense against Grizzly and Polar Bear at close range, so long range terminal ballistics are not really a factor, any shot taken will likely be inside of 50 Yards, hell, likely inside of 25 Yards. What are your guys thoughts?

Matt

Man that sucks. If laws don't change unfavourably before your hunt, Brenneke Magnum crush has 800 more foot lbs at the muzzle than black magic. If it's made to be good enough for cape buffalo, should be good enough for bears. It is a frigging kicker though!

 

[BjornF16]

Tell me more!

100% open mind

Lol…I think you misunderstood

Unfortunately, can’t take a suppressed M4 into Canada.

Otherwise I think it’s a fine choice, especially with 77 TMK

 

[PNWGATOR]

Got it…Canada, eh. SMH.

 

[Helislacker]

Got it…Canada, eh. SMH.

It’ll get better soon. They’ve seemingly given up on the guns bans and haven’t managed to “buy-back” a single firearm yet. Plus Canada is the only western country besides the US without a long gun registry so they don’t even know who owns what. Most importantly, Trudeau is at like 26% in the polls right now. This guy could go with a number of available NR semi auto .223 like the BT APC, Bren 2 and a number of others.

 

[WKB]

Merkel 140A in 470 NE with Federal Premium Whammo.

 

[Begle1]

I have Benelli R1 30-06, and also have four & ten round magazines for it. Concur under 200 yd accuracy is fine. It is not the first gun out of my safe on hunting trips but I actually do enjoy carrying it. Would not get a R1 for bear defense!! The R1 is not safe to carry or transport with a round in the chamber which I feel is essential for a bear protection weapon.
You are far better off with a large bore lever gun. One round in the chamber & three in the tube. Features both half cock hammer safety feature as well as traditional bolt safety.
I have the WWG Copilot .457 mag with ghost ring sights and really love it. Breaks down for easy transport and is overall a compact weapon. Using a lever gun is not a difficult task to master.
Have hunted AK for 23 years & have not been eaten by a bear yet

I've been considering an R1 and found this comment. Can you elaborate on the "not safe to carry with a round in the chamber" bit?

Are they particularly less drop-safe for a long gun?

 

[Mangata]

I've been considering an R1 and found this comment. Can you elaborate on the "not safe to carry with a round in the chamber" bit?

Are they particularly less drop-safe for a long gun?

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