Ideal Bear Defense Long Gun?

JFK said:
Canada is making firearms that hold 5+1 illegal? What a shit show this world is becoming.
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I have not seen the 5-shot restriction for shotguns anywhere. I know that bullpups are not legal, but in terms of capacity restrictions in and of themselves I have not seen it.

I am taking my Ithaca Model 37 Home Defense shotgun with me as my camp gun (7+1) on my Alberta moose hunt this fall.
 
I have Benelli R1 30-06, and also have four & ten round magazines for it. Concur under 200 yd accuracy is fine. It is not the first gun out of my safe on hunting trips but I actually do enjoy carrying it. Would not get a R1 for bear defense!! The R1 is not safe to carry or transport with a round in the chamber which I feel is essential for a bear protection weapon.
You are far better off with a large bore lever gun. One round in the chamber & three in the tube. Features both half cock hammer safety feature as well as traditional bolt safety.
I have the WWG Copilot .457 mag with ghost ring sights and really love it. Breaks down for easy transport and is overall a compact weapon. Using a lever gun is not a difficult task to master.
Have hunted AK for 23 years & have not been eaten by a bear yet 😉
 
Wrench said:
I'd rock the pump gun. No way would I want my kids fumbling with a lever gun under stress.....and if the gun fails to fire, the pump is the easiest to clear.
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Not an expert by any means so may be missing a concept here. Iv shot a lot of pump shotguns and a few lever rifles. I feel like I can stay on target better with a lever rifle vs a pump.

Why the pump over lever? Feel like a lever is just as intuitive.
 
carter33 said:
Not an expert by any means so may be missing a concept here. Iv shot a lot of pump shotguns and a few lever rifles. I feel like I can stay on target better with a lever rifle vs a pump.

Why the pump over lever? Feel like a lever is just as intuitive.
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Pump is more linear and the pump is unlocking/moving upon fire. Rem 870 anyway. I can roll a pump faster than my levers.
 
GingerSnap said:
Pump is more linear and the pump is unlocking/moving upon fire. Rem 870 anyway. I can roll a pump faster than my levers.
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The rem 870 is what iv shot mostly in a pump, I feel like it pulls more horizontally than a lever and that they both pull vertically a bit. As a side note the 870 I have has been passed down and has seen a hell of a lot of use and killed a ton of pheasant and waterfowl, great shotgun. It’s one of the guns I’d never dream of selling, too much sentimental value.

Iv also never had to run a lever in a live action situation where I was trying to get a second shot off at game. It just seems to me on a rifle my left hand mostly stabilizes while my right runs the bolt and of course the trigger or lever in this case. Pumping with my left just seems to throw me off target more with a rifle.
 
carter33 said:
Not an expert by any means so may be missing a concept here. Iv shot a lot of pump shotguns and a few lever rifles. I feel like I can stay on target better with a lever rifle vs a pump.

Why the pump over lever? Feel like a lever is just as intuitive.
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Ever shot a lever gun pushing 400gr pills fast? It'll ring the crap out of your face even when the gun fits you. Your knuckles will be mashed into the trigger guard. Was the rifle stowed cocked and locked, no lock half cock.....unloaded?

Any way you look at it there's more action required to make it go bang, more to make it go bang again and greater feedback to the trigger puller.

Flip side, 12ga pump is as safe as they get loaded/safety on. Push one button and go. Screw that up, one linear motion that can be done one handed (try that with a lever) and it's time again.

I have all of the above mentioned. I took my 45-70 when I was in the bush....but I wouldn't if my kids may need to defend me/themselves with it.

They can shoot a light load 20ga for practice and stuff the 12ga with the good stuff for battle..... plus, you can shoot Ptarmigan.
 
@Matt Magolan

I've some audacity telling a man whose been on Arctic expeditions what gun to bring. I've never been to the Arctic, but I have used guns in extreme cold weather. Your affinity for the semi-auto is apparent, but have you operated a semi- auto in extreme cold? I too have subconscious mastery of the semi-autos, but I've only been able to mitigate Murphy's Law. I've goose hunted in negative temperatures and witnessed enough semi-auto guns malfunction. Cold constricts metals and alloys constrict differently than steel. In the very cold I can watch my Browning A5 3.5" 12ga bolt slide slowly forwards in attempt to return to battery. No matter how clean, or which lube to no lube would help. The receiver at the least constricts and the bolt is retarded by the shrinking receiver. So get a steel receiver?...Browning BAR Safari 338WM in -20 windchill conditions. I had failure to return to battery.

I've been a Glock owner and user for 20yrs. Untold number of rounds fired through Glocks, instructed others on the use of Glocks, trusted my life to Glock. 100% confidence in Glock based upon 100% reliability in my experience. Until one day...

I blood trailed a wounded TX hog in 90F. heat. I took my Glock 41 45 ACP duty pistol. (The one I had on my hip everyday for my day job) While tracking I bumped into two piglets in the shrubs. I smoked both piglets with one shot a piece. Boom, Boom, squeeeeaaaalllll! Momma took a straight line charge at me. I thought, "OH YES! Mag dump into her head!" Instead is was "OH NO I have a dead trigger". Looked to see my slide locked back and while I was performing immediate action on the Glock, a piglet flopped in the grass and drew the sow's attention off me to her piglet. (She diverted at maybe 4yds from me. I did take note that I could see ultimate concern in her face. I know its strange, but I did. Whale eyed) While she was checking out her piglet I got my Glock back in action and smoked her on her run away. Tell me that doesn't put a pin in your balloon of faith! I would have been better off with a revolver in that instance. F'N Murphy!

A stainless double rifle with composite stock and red fiber optic front sight would be my dangerous game gun. I don't think that exists and the double guns I ever see are 10K plus and French fancy grade walnut. NOPE

A bolt gun is not a fast operating dangerous game gun. CRF style prevents short stroking, but the 4 movements of the bolt is just not the fastest. You also don't want anything with an "eye box". Keep the scopes off the gun.

#1 pick is a pump 12 gauge. At least you have mechanical advantage or influence over the action if it gets sticky in cold weather.

#2 Pick is the 45-70 lever gun. Same mechanical advantage in cold weather.
 
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Talking about which one can be reloaded under certain situtaions is just a silly discussion.

If you have not stopped a bear in 3 rounds, your time is up.

Also if you don't have background with lever, I suppose don't get a lever. Though I think it can be insticually picked up.

But I still think pump shot gun is the most reliable gun you can carry. I like levers, but there is more to them. The marlin people like to pretend the old marlins were perfect, but if use search engine on their forums you will see not true.

That said I feel good about my 45-70s.

I also laugh at the statement I was fine dying with this one gun, but now my 9 year old will be there.,

Also muscle memory of semi auto handgun has nothing to do with the conversation of long guns,

I
 
GingerSnap said:
@Matt Magolan

I've some audacity telling a man whose been on Arctic expeditions what gun to bring. I've never been to the Arctic, but I have used guns in extreme cold weather. Your affinity for the semi-auto is apparent, but have you operated a semi- auto in extreme cold? I too have subconscious mastery of the semi-autos, but I've only been able to mitigate Murphy's Law. I've goose hunted in negative temperatures and witnessed enough semi-auto guns malfunction. Cold constricts metals and alloys constrict differently than steel. In the very cold I can watch my Browning A5 3.5" 12ga bolt slide slowly forwards in attempt to return to battery. No matter how clean, or which lube to no lube would help. The receiver at the least constricts and the bolt is retarded by the shrinking receiver. So get a steel receiver?...Browning BAR Safari 338WM in -20 windchill conditions. I had failure to return to battery.

I've been a Glock owner and user for 20yrs. Untold number of rounds fired through Glocks, instructed others on the use of Glocks, trusted my life to Glock. 100% confidence in Glock based upon 100% reliability in my experience. Until one day...

I blood trailed a wounded TX hog in 90F. heat. I took my Glock 41 45 ACP duty pistol. (The one I had on my hip everyday for my day job) While tracking I bumped into two piglets in the shrubs. I smoked both piglets with one shot a piece. Boom, Boom, squeeeeaaaalllll! Momma took a straight line charge at me. I thought, "OH YES! Mag dump into her head!" Instead is was "OH NO I have a dead trigger". Looked to see my slide locked back and while I was performing immediate action on the Glock, a piglet flopped in the grass and drew the sow's attention off me to her piglet. (She diverted at maybe 4yds from me. I did take note that I could see ultimate concern in her face. I know its strange, but I did. Whale eyed) While she was checking out her piglet I got my Glock back in action and smoked her on her run away. Tell me that doesn't put a pin in your balloon of faith! I would have been better off with a revolver in that instance. F'N Murphy!

A stainless double rifle with composite stock and red fiber optic front sight would be my dangerous game gun. I don't think that exists and the double guns I ever see are 10K plus and French fancy grade walnut. NOPE

A bolt gun is not a fast operating dangerous game gun. CRF style prevents short stroking, but the 4 movements of the bolt is just not the fastest. You also don't want anything with an "eye box". Keep the scopes off the gun.

#1 pick is a pump 12 gauge. At least you have mechanical advantage or influence over the action if it gets sticky in cold weather.

#2 Pick is the 45-70 lever gun. Same mechanical advantage in cold weather.
Click to expand...

This is a raft trip, if it gets that cold the water will be solid.
 
go watch a guy shoot trap with a pump 12ga. then try to do the same with a lever.

you will be humbled, i would bet.

ok, i do have a double shotgun but no rifle and i do have the lever guide gun.

i cant see carrying the double loaded in the raft. and loading one in a pinch could be unsettling, to say the least.
 
Africa has a 100+ year history of using bolt rifles for the most dangerous game on the planet.

Not the only option obviously but one with a solid history.


And to the OP, manual of arms for a bolt rifle is different than for your AR. Left hand keeps rifle pressed to shoulder, head stays behind aiming device, right hand cycles the bolt. That's for a right handed shooter. Not that I'm anyone special, I looked it up due to my fascination with African hunting.
 
With Canada laws….

Same as everyone else…. Stick with a pump 12 ga and slugs and 000 buck. The buck will double for other stuff and you can carry some bird shot.

45/70 is my other suggestion.

If you cant work a pump or lever instinctively, i assume you have time to cycle 500 or so rounds thru it, become one sort o speak. Many of us grew up with a pump shotgun and have that advantage.

Sounds like an excellent trip. Remember your fish pole.
 
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Just smuggle whatever you need in your pants and tell the border Canucks your hung like a horse.

I'm curious with all the recent gun grabs up north what the people who interact with bears consistently are able to pack besides spray.
 
rayporter said:
go watch a guy shoot trap with a pump 12ga. then try to do the same with a lever.

you will be humbled, i would bet.
Click to expand...
While I do have a pump 30-06, I never really thought of it as easier than a lever.
 
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