marshland_max
WKR
12 ga pump all day. I have carried similar hiking in bear country,
Ideal Bear Defense Long Gun?
- Thread starter Matt Magolan
- Start date
A
Although they are no longer in production, there are 338 win mag Browning BAR's out there. They would seem to be compliant with the magazine capacity limit. They have 3 round mags.
Last edited:
- Banned
- #43
Not me. I have a love hate with that gun. You should not have to rack a rifle hard to go into battery, or use small base dies. Factory ammo should be fine.
Plus bear hunting oce, when I went rack my follow up shot. the slide got stuck in my jacket, which was loose. I was jammed up. Weird one. I suppose that could happen with 12 ga, Maybe bigger slide on shotgun.
Also why choose a 30-06 for this????
I
49ereric
WKR
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- Jun 21, 2022
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- 838
Maybe up north in the severe cold they are wise enough to clean with kerosene and not use oil.
lot of guys had issues late in deer season here with semi autos due to @-20° and surprised how few knew what to use.
Shraggs
WKR
I agree, pump 12 g or lever. Big fan of the browning blr pistol grip in 358 very hot loaded we it’s partion or hammer
492slayer
FNG
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- Nov 10, 2022
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- 9
I have a Browning . 375 H&H Magnum A-Bolt Stainless Stalker in left hand that is a tack driver with 300gr A-Frame bullets ( Factory loads). From all I've read, a .338 Win Mag would be the minimum I'd consider for Alaskan Brown bear, Grizzly or Polar Bear. I think I'd feel a bit nervous with the 12ga route, but have never personally tried to stop a bear at close quarters with a slug gun.
- Thread Starter
- #48
OP
Matt Magolan
FNG
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2023
- Messages
- 15
Interesting suggestions guys, I appreciate it, a few specific answers to specific posts above:
J Batt:
Excellent point about the ergonomics of the Left Handed bolt gun, the bolt tearing up our hand if you try to maintain grip!
Ginger Snap:
Good info, thank you. We will be there in the summer. We may see temps into the low 30's as we reach the Arctic Ocean, but that would not be for long stretches, probably more like the 50's on average. So, it shouldn't be extreme cold. Even bolt guns suffer from icing, part of the reason the Accuracy International rifles have de-icing cuts in the bolt group.
Zerk:
Not sure why you got that I was OK with Dying, I'm not, I am proficient with a pump gun and carried one back in 1997 (Winchester 1300 Marine Defender), but I'm faster (and more accurate) with a semiauto shotgun. Back in 2004, I trained hard with a Benelli M1 Tactical (Benelli actually sponsored the trip by selling us some SHOT show demo guns at a DEEP discount). We trained with a DOJ Instructor who helped us work on our speed shooting and I brought the old Winchester with me to training sessions to see the difference. There was no question which gun was faster. The Benelli M1 Tactical has since been banned by the Canadian Government it is listed by model in their "Assault Weapons" ban list (Likely the reason the M2 came out so quickly after the M1). The Benelli has been a reliable weapon for me, especially when firing Brenneke magnum ammo with the Inertia Drive.
MallardSX2:
30-06 seems a bit underpowered for close in work, premium ammo in .308 has similar ballistics these days, I think I'll go bigger .338 Rifle and 12 gauge in shotgun.
Fatcamp:
IN AFRICA there is also a long tradition of a guy standing behind you with a .416 Rigby or even a 500 Nitro Express Double Rifle to save your bacon if you don't make the shot with your bolt gun. I've read enough Peter Hathaway Capstick in my youth to know that! Ha ha.
Awesome video, I've been seeing a lot of videos of Guides, both hunting and fishing, in AK firing warning shots as a charging Brown Bear closes in. Interesting.
Rich M: we will be fishing a lot!
Keep it coming guys, interesting dialogue.
J Batt:
Excellent point about the ergonomics of the Left Handed bolt gun, the bolt tearing up our hand if you try to maintain grip!
Ginger Snap:
Good info, thank you. We will be there in the summer. We may see temps into the low 30's as we reach the Arctic Ocean, but that would not be for long stretches, probably more like the 50's on average. So, it shouldn't be extreme cold. Even bolt guns suffer from icing, part of the reason the Accuracy International rifles have de-icing cuts in the bolt group.
Zerk:
Not sure why you got that I was OK with Dying, I'm not, I am proficient with a pump gun and carried one back in 1997 (Winchester 1300 Marine Defender), but I'm faster (and more accurate) with a semiauto shotgun. Back in 2004, I trained hard with a Benelli M1 Tactical (Benelli actually sponsored the trip by selling us some SHOT show demo guns at a DEEP discount). We trained with a DOJ Instructor who helped us work on our speed shooting and I brought the old Winchester with me to training sessions to see the difference. There was no question which gun was faster. The Benelli M1 Tactical has since been banned by the Canadian Government it is listed by model in their "Assault Weapons" ban list (Likely the reason the M2 came out so quickly after the M1). The Benelli has been a reliable weapon for me, especially when firing Brenneke magnum ammo with the Inertia Drive.
MallardSX2:
30-06 seems a bit underpowered for close in work, premium ammo in .308 has similar ballistics these days, I think I'll go bigger .338 Rifle and 12 gauge in shotgun.
Fatcamp:
IN AFRICA there is also a long tradition of a guy standing behind you with a .416 Rigby or even a 500 Nitro Express Double Rifle to save your bacon if you don't make the shot with your bolt gun. I've read enough Peter Hathaway Capstick in my youth to know that! Ha ha.
Awesome video, I've been seeing a lot of videos of Guides, both hunting and fishing, in AK firing warning shots as a charging Brown Bear closes in. Interesting.
Rich M: we will be fishing a lot!
Keep it coming guys, interesting dialogue.
- Thread Starter
- #49
OP
Matt Magolan
FNG
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2023
- Messages
- 15
FatCamp:
Two classic African rifles are the PH’s Rigby double barrel in .470 Nitro Express and the client’s Rigby Mauser in .416 Rigby. One shot from the .416 handled this buffalo, but the big bore was there as backup if needed. Ron Spomer
From the article:
www.outdoorlife.com
From the article:
The Most Iconic Rifles and Cartridges from African Safaris
The iconic guns and loads ever used by safari hunters.
www.outdoorlife.com
FatCamp:
Two classic African rifles are the PH’s Rigby double barrel in .470 Nitro Express and the client’s Rigby Mauser in .416 Rigby. One shot from the .416 handled this buffalo, but the big bore was there as backup if needed. Ron Spomer
From the article:
The Most Iconic Rifles and Cartridges from African Safaris
The iconic guns and loads ever used by safari hunters.
Very cool!
Like I said, I'm reading "Hunter" again.
A much younger Boddington and the late David Ommanney (Winchester’s “man in Africa” in the 1960s) admiring African legend JA Hunter’s last double .500. The asking price, with provenance from Hunter, was $10,000, which I didn’t have. Today that rifle is 30-some years older…and worth a whole lot more.
In the end I want s big rifle, which to me starts at .375. I have no use for such a thing but you do, so a big rifle gets my vote.
A Benelli pump with rifle sights and slugs would be the most effective weapon for me, but I have untold rounds, game, and miles walked with a pump shotgun.
- Thread Starter
- #51
OP
Matt Magolan
FNG
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2023
- Messages
- 15
Fatcamp, sounds like you and I have similar taste in reading material. Here is a pic of just one of my book shelves.
I got my copy of Hunter quite by accident at a thrift store for .50 cents when I was about 12 years old! It was one of my favorite books from the time I was 12 until I was about 19 and went off to college. My life took me a different direction, but I wanted to be a Big Game Hunter in Africa for many years as a kid.
I got my copy of Hunter quite by accident at a thrift store for .50 cents when I was about 12 years old! It was one of my favorite books from the time I was 12 until I was about 19 and went off to college. My life took me a different direction, but I wanted to be a Big Game Hunter in Africa for many years as a kid.
My copy came from a random yard sale. Not a single other hunting related item, just that book.
I have read many others, but these are the ones I have in my possession.
Our local public library used to have an amazing collection. It was purged years ago because of unfriendly words towards African natives. So sad.
VernAK
WKR
Matt,
You may be over-thinking some of this. I have canoed and fished extensively in YT for several decades. I have a PAL [Canadian Possession and Acquisition License] so I've been exposed to Canadian regulations.
I would check further on that pistol grip on the shotgun. It may be legal but may raise a red flag at the border. It's been my experience that regulations change with the shift change at border crossings. A few years ago, the lass at Beaver Creek Customs asked my buddy what the extra barrel was for on his double gun. It's best if your gun doesn't look military in any way. Magazine capacity is currently an issue also.
Any of the better Brenneke slugs in a RELIABLE pump 12 ga is hard to beat. You may encounter blowing sand that can foul an auto.
A friend with ADFG shot several dozen bears [black and grizzly] from a heli and the local folks recovering the meat complained about the Brenneke slugs ruining too much meat. After switching to Foster slugs, they were happy as they could eat right up to the bullet hole although there were many more bullet holes.
We do put Critter Gitter alarms on the beach.
Your trip will be interesting, but I won't be there this year as my partner is awaiting surgery. We'll probably make a road tour of YT in the Canol Road area and Robert Campbell Highway.
Good luck!
You may be over-thinking some of this. I have canoed and fished extensively in YT for several decades. I have a PAL [Canadian Possession and Acquisition License] so I've been exposed to Canadian regulations.
I would check further on that pistol grip on the shotgun. It may be legal but may raise a red flag at the border. It's been my experience that regulations change with the shift change at border crossings. A few years ago, the lass at Beaver Creek Customs asked my buddy what the extra barrel was for on his double gun. It's best if your gun doesn't look military in any way. Magazine capacity is currently an issue also.
Any of the better Brenneke slugs in a RELIABLE pump 12 ga is hard to beat. You may encounter blowing sand that can foul an auto.
A friend with ADFG shot several dozen bears [black and grizzly] from a heli and the local folks recovering the meat complained about the Brenneke slugs ruining too much meat. After switching to Foster slugs, they were happy as they could eat right up to the bullet hole although there were many more bullet holes.
We do put Critter Gitter alarms on the beach.
Your trip will be interesting, but I won't be there this year as my partner is awaiting surgery. We'll probably make a road tour of YT in the Canol Road area and Robert Campbell Highway.
Good luck!
- Banned
- #54
It was just a joke, cause you said you carried one gun, but now your family is there you want more.
- Thread Starter
- #55
OP
Matt Magolan
FNG
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2023
- Messages
- 15
Zerk:
No worries, sometimes it's hard to read people's intonation in a forum post!
VernAK: Thanks for the insights, all good points. None of our current guns have pistol-grip stocks, exactly for the reason you mention, don't want any issues at the border, including extra scrutiny just because the guns look scary. Ha ha, yeah, I've been known to overanalyze things a bit, however, my quest for the perfect Bear Defense Rifle has been an enjoyable rabbit hole (mental exercise) to go down. And on that note...
I found something very interesting from Zee Germans:
The Merkel SR1 chambered in 9.3X62
PROS: Looks like a formidable round coupled with a well respected rifle, kind of a cross between a .375 H&H and a 35 Whelen. 5 + 1 capacity with a detachable box magazine.
NOT SURE IF IT'S A PRO OR CON: 19.7" Barrel, so that may lower the speed of the bullet as compared to ammo manufacturers numbers. But on the other hand, would make it swing nicely and handle speedily in a self defense bear situation.
CONS: From my perspective as a canoe and sea kayak expedition guy, which means the rifle will be used in both fresh and salt water, is that they don't make it with a synthetic stock (Wood is great for a kitchen table, but not a rifle stock! I apologize in advance to any purist who reads this.).
www.merkel-die-jagd.de
The US Importer seems kind of strange, they have a contact e-mail on .aol, I didn't even know AOL still existed, so I'm waiting to call them to get a price and availability on the rifle by phone.
AMMO:
...And on the upside, many custom ammo makers (Like Hendershot's) in the US and even some gun-shops have the ammo (Swift Ammo) in stock. That's more than can be said for any heavy for caliber .338 Win Mag ammo right now. (All on backorder most places, actually, bleeping, everywhere).
SWIFT Ammunition 9.3X62 (9.3mm = .366) Swift A-Frame 286 grain at 2396 fps at the muzzle makes for a Taylor Knock out of 36 (Available RIGHT NOW)
Hendershot's Extreme Swift A Frame 286 grain at 2300 TKO = 34.3 (ALSO Available RIGHT NOW)
Hendershot's Extreme Swift A Frame 300 grain at 2200 TKO = 34.5 (ALSO Available RIGHT NOW)
Apparently there is another semiauto from the German maker Sauer, which is the 303 in 9.3X62 and it comes in synthetic with a barrel a bit longer. It is probably, waaaay too expensive for my means, but interesting none-the-less.
The rabbit hole just keeps going.
Here is an article by Spomer about the 9.3X62 round:
www.ronspomeroutdoors.com
No worries, sometimes it's hard to read people's intonation in a forum post!
VernAK: Thanks for the insights, all good points. None of our current guns have pistol-grip stocks, exactly for the reason you mention, don't want any issues at the border, including extra scrutiny just because the guns look scary. Ha ha, yeah, I've been known to overanalyze things a bit, however, my quest for the perfect Bear Defense Rifle has been an enjoyable rabbit hole (mental exercise) to go down. And on that note...
I found something very interesting from Zee Germans:
The Merkel SR1 chambered in 9.3X62
PROS: Looks like a formidable round coupled with a well respected rifle, kind of a cross between a .375 H&H and a 35 Whelen. 5 + 1 capacity with a detachable box magazine.
NOT SURE IF IT'S A PRO OR CON: 19.7" Barrel, so that may lower the speed of the bullet as compared to ammo manufacturers numbers. But on the other hand, would make it swing nicely and handle speedily in a self defense bear situation.
CONS: From my perspective as a canoe and sea kayak expedition guy, which means the rifle will be used in both fresh and salt water, is that they don't make it with a synthetic stock (Wood is great for a kitchen table, but not a rifle stock! I apologize in advance to any purist who reads this.).
SR1 Basic | Guns, Semi-automatic rifles, SR1 | Merkel
SR1 Basic The SR1 builds on tested technology, as its construction principle has been proven a hundred-thousand-fold: The self-cleaning system of the gas-pressure self-loader with a twisting bolt-head lock allows for the reliable use of a large ammunition range. Intelligently solved: At the...
www.merkel-die-jagd.de
The US Importer seems kind of strange, they have a contact e-mail on .aol, I didn't even know AOL still existed, so I'm waiting to call them to get a price and availability on the rifle by phone.
AMMO:
...And on the upside, many custom ammo makers (Like Hendershot's) in the US and even some gun-shops have the ammo (Swift Ammo) in stock. That's more than can be said for any heavy for caliber .338 Win Mag ammo right now. (All on backorder most places, actually, bleeping, everywhere).
SWIFT Ammunition 9.3X62 (9.3mm = .366) Swift A-Frame 286 grain at 2396 fps at the muzzle makes for a Taylor Knock out of 36 (Available RIGHT NOW)
Hendershot's Extreme Swift A Frame 286 grain at 2300 TKO = 34.3 (ALSO Available RIGHT NOW)
Hendershot's Extreme Swift A Frame 300 grain at 2200 TKO = 34.5 (ALSO Available RIGHT NOW)
Apparently there is another semiauto from the German maker Sauer, which is the 303 in 9.3X62 and it comes in synthetic with a barrel a bit longer. It is probably, waaaay too expensive for my means, but interesting none-the-less.
The rabbit hole just keeps going.
Here is an article by Spomer about the 9.3X62 round:
The Surprising 9.3x62 Rifle Cartridge — Ron Spomer Outdoors
The 9.3x62? As a firearms and hunting writer I expect to discover and investigate new guns and cartridges. I don’t anticipate discovering an old cartridge that’s trending. But this one is. The 9.3x62 of 1905 , which doesn’t even have a last name, is finally catching the spotlight in the USA. Some
www.ronspomeroutdoors.com
KenLee
WKR
My thoughts on your potentisl choices for rifles:
1. 45-70 lever
2. Remington 7600 pump in 35 Whelen
If you are dead set on a semi-auto,
3. Browning BAR lightweight stalker in 338
win mag
I know of cycling issues with the R1, but have shot my 3 lightweight stalker BARs enoigh to have confidence in them, but I'm not running into a grizzly or polar bear.
1. 45-70 lever
2. Remington 7600 pump in 35 Whelen
If you are dead set on a semi-auto,
3. Browning BAR lightweight stalker in 338
win mag
I know of cycling issues with the R1, but have shot my 3 lightweight stalker BARs enoigh to have confidence in them, but I'm not running into a grizzly or polar bear.
- Banned
- #57
If going with a pump action, should you just go with 12 gauge slugs? Which lighter?
Rambucsabillbul
Lil-Rokslider
Marlin 1895 in 45/70 lever with 500 gr. Loads or a 12 Ga Short pump shotgun with big mag capacity
Avoid anything Auto .......
Avoid anything Auto .......
AZ_Hunter_2000
WKR
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2019
- Messages
- 2,956
Lots of great info but many of the suggestions would potentially get you locked up if passed. Folks should read up on it.
safariclub.org
As far as the Taylor KO calculator, it is interesting that a 454 Casull has the same KO score as a 338 Win Mag shooting a 225 gr bullet at 2800 fps.
Canada Bans Guns Commonly Used for Hunting & Recreation - Safari Club
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau recently issued an Order in Council that contains some of the most restrictive and shocking gun control measures
safariclub.org
As far as the Taylor KO calculator, it is interesting that a 454 Casull has the same KO score as a 338 Win Mag shooting a 225 gr bullet at 2800 fps.
KenLee
WKR
OP seems to want a rifle to take along.
A pump 12 gauge should be fine. In the back of my mind, I'm still haunted by the terrible accuracy of slugs from 50 years ago.
The state didn't allow buckshot for deer on public land back then and we were dirt poor with no rifles in the family other than a couple 22s. I remember thinking I was a long range sniper when I bought my first worn Remington semi-auto 30-06 at 11 years old with $ from cutting grass, washing cars and pruning bushes for everyone in the neighborhood.
Back then you were doing good to hit a pie plate at 50 yards from a smooth bore shotty. That was taking your time to aim, not with a bear charging.
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