Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[Sully_44]

How many tags do you think were moved to primitive? Were the season dates kept the same or was primitive moved to a more desirable timeframe?

There are no scoped rifle hunts and only a primitive rifle hunt, so all of them. And no. Dates stayed the same.

 

[Flyjunky]

4. Not sure about the tag number for Idaho, as it’s not even approved yet. But I'll give you some for Oregon, in the unit I've been discussing. 50 rifle tags and up to 300 traditional archery tags. Those 50 rifle tags kill as many bucks as the 300 trad tags (they don't sell them all every year either, closer to 150 hunters). With 150 hunter ans 15% success that's like 22 deer. So yep, opportunity increases because of these hunts. Period.

So, this is what I’m getting at. It’s not about building numbers it’s just shifting how those deer are killed.

Im real happy more hunters are getting a tag but it still puts us in the same hole.

If we want to, ultimately, have opportunity in the future we need to build numbers otherwise it’s not going to matter if you have primitive weapons or not. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is cut tag numbers unless we start to seriously tackle the bigger issues. Sorry, that’s the reality.

 

[nevadabugle]

If you’re talking about when Travis was talking about appreciating Utah trying something and he’s on a committee trying to do the same thing in Idaho then I guess guys like him are making the changes in both states.

The solution I see for the older hunters is apply for hunts with scoped rifles. I recognize that I will eventually get too old to hunt the way I like to in the places I like to. It’s a reality we’ll all face. Adjust and go hunt a new unit if you’re blessed to still be able to hunt. That’s the way I see it, and it may sound harsh, especially as someone who’s young, but I also believe it’s reality.

Or be like the MANY guys I know in their 70s still getting after it every year with a freaking recurve. Now, don't get me wrong real health issues can limit folks. I get that, but I know many guys still hunting hard with trad bows late in life.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Friend, pay very close attention here - sincerely, and respectfully, but pay very close attention:

If you aren't gathering data on both success and failure, which clearly shows specific tech was directly involved in a hunter's success - while also showing lack of that tech was more pronounced in those failing to fill their tag - then all of this is just assumption-laden policy-making by emotion and feeling.

And that is the very antithesis of good governance.

Is that how you want Utah governed? The same way some 3rd world $h*thole is governed?

Is that how you want your dad governed? By feelings?

Give me legit data. Everything else is opinion.

Some things are almost a guarantee, and limiting success rates through limiting optics technology falls into that category.

My experience in the field last month with a very refined iron sight setup is that you’re limited to 200-300 yds under most hunting lighting/contrast situations with irons. That’s a chip shot with a scoped rifle. Most hunters aren’t great at reliably closing into those kind of ranges on game, which is one of the reasons success rates are usually lower on archery/muzzie hunts even often with more favorable season dates.

 

[Flyjunky]

There are no scoped rifle hunts and only a primitive rifle hunt, so all of them. And no. Dates stayed the same.

Thanks for that. I didn’t know all of Utah was moved to primitive, I must have read it wrong.

 

[nevadabugle]

So, this is what I’m getting at. It’s not about building numbers it’s just shifting how those deer are killed.

Im real happy more hunters are getting a tag but it still puts us in the same hole.

If we want to, ultimately, have opportunity in the future we need to build numbers otherwise it’s not going to matter if you have primitive weapons or not. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is cut tag numbers unless we start to seriously tackle the bigger issues. Sorry, that’s the reality.

Appreciate that we are atleast hearing each other. I agree with most of what you said here. The only thing I will slightly disagree with is that there are two ways to increase numbers. 1. More habitat 2. Increased recruitment of does.

I do not believe that buck harvest (within reason) affects that recruitment.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Thanks for that. I didn’t know all of Utah was moved to primitive, I must have read it wrong.

Just 2 or 3 units. Some general deer and some limited. However, in those units, ALL rifle tags went to restricted.

 

[Sully_44]

Thanks for that. I didn’t know all of Utah was moved to primitive, I must have read it wrong.

All of Utah was not. Only a couple units. They are piloting the change in a couple units to see how things go. If people like it and it works well, I’d assume more units or hunts in the future will try it. But the units that are trying it no longer have a scoped rifle season.

 

[BasicUtahrd95]

It’s all part of a study to see the impact of restricted weapons on hunter satisfaction and deer populations. Started this season and is supposed to end after the 2028 season. Could expand or get killed based on the results.

 

[flyfisher117]

If you’re talking about when Travis was talking about appreciating Utah trying something and he’s on a committee trying to do the same thing in Idaho then I guess guys like him are making the changes in both states.

The solution I see for the older hunters is apply for hunts with scoped rifles. I recognize that I will eventually get too old to hunt the way I like to in the places I like to. It’s a reality we’ll all face. Adjust and go hunt a new unit if you’re blessed to still be able to hunt. That’s the way I see it, and it may sound harsh, especially as someone who’s young, but I also believe it’s reality.

Nope not that episode.

lol sorry you can’t shoot irons. Sucks to suck now go sit down old man. Spend the last 10 years you can hunt applying for a limited scope rifle hunt you will never draw.
What a joke, open up exemptions, make it possible for these guys to shoot a red dots or some other non magnified optic that can keep them going.

Or be like the MANY guys I know in their 70s still getting after it every year with a freaking recurve. Now, don't get me wrong real health issues can limit folks. I get that, but I know many guys still hunting hard with trad bows late in life.

Trad bows are a great alternative for older archery hunters. I know a couple who could no longer use peeps sights. They started shooting their compounds without a peep. Then they lost the front sight and shot instinctive.. Then a year later they went full trad, in that instance it was a better move for their age and abilities.

 

[43.6N]

So what I’m hearing for Idaho is some units are likely to be used as pilot programs.
Their any weapon seasons will be converted over 100% to open sights. No change to dates or numbers.

So for example the owyhees. Get rid of the general 2pt only season, and start an open sight any buck season.
Likely no change to the controlled tags for those units?

That sounds acceptable to me.
What am I missing?

 

[Flyjunky]

Appreciate that we are atleast hearing each other. I agree with most of what you said here. The only thing I will slightly disagree with is that there are two ways to increase numbers. 1. More habitat 2. Increased recruitment of does.

I do not believe that buck harvest (within reason) affects that recruitment.

With an ODFW biologist in my family I’ve had hundreds of hours of convo on this subject.

Your last sentence sums it up.

Eliminate most doe hunts, especially in under objective units, and get a handle on predators…at least here in Oregon. We could talk late season pressure, does getting bred late….etc, etc, etc.

 

[SDHNTR]

You honestly think herds are diminishing because of technology?

I do.

 

[Flyjunky]

All of Utah was not. Only a couple units. They are piloting the change in a couple units to see how things go. If people like it and it works well, I’d assume more units or hunts in the future will try it. But the units that are trying it no longer have a scoped rifle season.

I’m sure Utah ran the numbers, how many extra deer are projected to make it through?

 

[nevadabugle]

With an ODFW biologist in my family I’ve had hundreds of hours of convo on this subject.

Your last sentence sums it up.

Eliminate most doe hunts, especially in under objective units, and get a handle on predators…at least here in Oregon. We could talk late season pressure, does getting bred late….etc, etc, etc.

Appreciate you man. Topic got a bit heated but we kept it civil. I love a group of guys who can passionately disagree but also, respect another's opinion. Cheers brother!

 

[SDHNTR]

Friend, pay very close attention here - sincerely, and respectfully, but pay very close attention:

If you aren't gathering data on both success and failure, which clearly shows specific tech was directly involved in a hunter's success - while also showing lack of that tech was more pronounced in those failing to fill their tag - then all of this is just assumption-laden policy-making by emotion and feeling.

And that is the very antithesis of good governance.

Is that how you want Utah governed? The same way some 3rd world $h*thole is governed?

Is that how you want your dad governed? By feelings?

Give me legit data. Everything else is opinion.

I don’t need data to tell me that a season that allows weapons capable of killing deer at 1000 yards is gonna kill more deer (and older age class deer) than one that is limited to 150-200 yards.

 

[SDHNTR]

Not “wrong” there’s literally been Rokcast episodes where guests talk about it. They got to “experience” it all and now want it changed. One of the biggest proponents for pushing the changes on the Cache unit is now up here in Idaho pushing the same narrative.

Since you’re on the committee can you provide a solution for the older hunters who can’t shoot irons? Or should they just wing it and lob rounds blindly at game?

Glasses.

 

[flyfisher117]

Glasses.

I’ve been told multifocal glasses are a b!@$?

Cataracts don’t help some others.

 

[SDHNTR]

I know a few people who had the Utah tags this year. They all said they saw bucks that they had to let walk due to range limitations. They all said they would’ve easily filled tags with modern scoped rifles. So several deer lived that wouldn’t have otherwise. Isn’t that the point? And all the hunters thought it was a great experience and positive overall.

 

[SDHNTR]

I’ve been told multifocal glasses are a b!@$?

Cataracts don’t help some others.

Fine. Allow a 1x scope like muzzleloaders if you must.