Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[nevadabugle]

I'd be more in favor of a traditional muzzleloader or archery season.

I would agree. These two hunting segments already exist and have a strong following. Open sighted rifles not so much.

Edited...spelling error

 

[Sully_44]

^^^ I can completely agree with this, and support calling those guys out as the a-holes they're choosing to be with those unethical decisions...




While vehemently disagreeing with this ^^^ - with every fiber of my being.


Those seasons/tags/limitations should be voluntary options - not forced limitations because some guys are too unethical, or too good with modern gear.

So do you just sit back and not restrict anything, and hope that somehow guys decide to limit themselves (knowing most aren’t going to) all while watching herds diminish to nothing.

 

[Flyjunky]

Ok. I would disagree, but let's unpack your assumption a bit.

If the current model does not work to produce trophy bucks, maybe we should attempt a different model? Doing the same thing and expecting different results hardly seems like a smart decision.

If you honestly think making a “primitive” season is going to make a difference in herd numbers…well, I guess I don’t have much to say.

I’ve lived in Oregon and have hunted here for close 50 years. The deer hunting is/has been going downhill for 30+ years. Every state game dept is a business and they make money by selling tags. If we really wanted to help game numbers we’d be cutting tags but that doesn’t help the budget.

If people are really concerned with bringing back herd numbers, real action needs to be taken. Predator management, habitat work, tag reductions, stop rut hunts, etc.

If every hunter complaining about deer numbers would kill 10-15 coyotes, a cougar, or a bear every year it would have a much bigger impact. Instead, we’ll put on a band aid and wonder what to do next in 10 years.

 

[Flyjunky]

So do you just sit back and not restrict anything, and hope that somehow guys decide to limit themselves (knowing most aren’t going to) all while watching herds diminish to nothing.

You honestly think herds are diminishing because of technology?

 

[nevadabugle]

If you honestly think making a “primitive” season is going to make a difference in herd numbers…well, I guess I don’t have much to say.

I’ve lived in Oregon and have hunted here for close 50 years. The deer hunting is/has been going downhill for 30+ years. Every state game dept is a business and they make money by selling tags. If we really wanted to help game numbers we’d be cutting tags but that doesn’t help the budget.

If people are really concerned with bringing back herd numbers, real action needs to be taken. Predator management, habitat work, tag reductions, stop rut hunts, etc.

If every hunter complaining about deer numbers would kill 10-15 coyotes, a cougar, or a bear every year it would have a much bigger impact. Instead, we’ll put on a band aid and wonder what to do next in 10 years.

I fully agree with habitat as the number one issue for mule deer.

I am agnostic on the predator point, but do often ask any hunter that complains about lions how many they killed last year. They all say zero, yet you can buy 2 over the counter tags in Nevada. Maybe im an ass, but always get a kick out of that.

 

[nevadabugle]

You honestly think herds are diminishing because of technology?

No, but opportunity is.

 

[Flyjunky]

No, but opportunity is.

So, it’s really not about helping numbers, just opportunity?

Once again, a band aid fix isn’t going to move the needle. Just delaying things while numbers keep dropping.

Let’s put some numbers to this then.

How many rifle tags would be moved to primitive, open sights?

 

[Sully_44]

You honestly think herds are diminishing because of technology?

I think that there are 100s of reasons. The biggest being population growth in the west. If we can do anything to help the herds I’m for it. Advanced tech while hunting certainly doesn’t help the animals live.

 

[RockAndSage]

Wrong, I’m on the tech committee in Utah, I’m in my 20s and liked the idea of trying something to offset how efficient we are getting with all the new tech.

Something has to give and maybe limiting technology will help with that.

Friend, pay very close attention here - sincerely, and respectfully, but pay very close attention:

If you aren't gathering data on both success and failure, which clearly shows specific tech was directly involved in a hunter's success - while also showing lack of that tech was more pronounced in those failing to fill their tag - then all of this is just assumption-laden policy-making by emotion and feeling.

And that is the very antithesis of good governance.

Is that how you want Utah governed? The same way some 3rd world $h*thole is governed?

Is that how you want your dad governed? By feelings?

Give me legit data. Everything else is opinion.

 

[Sully_44]

So, it’s really not about helping numbers, just opportunity?

Once again, a band aid fix isn’t going to move the needle. Just delaying things while numbers keep dropping.

Let’s put some numbers to this then.

How many rifle tags would be moved to primitive, open sights?

So, it’s really not about helping numbers, just opportunity?

Once again, a band aid fix isn’t going to move the needle. Just delaying things while numbers keep dropping.

Let’s put some numbers to this then.

How many rifle tags would be moved to primitive, open sights?

In the units Utah started doing that this year, all of them are moved to primitive. After couple years we’ll have numbers to go off of and see if it’s moving the needle or not.

 

[Sully_44]

Friend, pay very close attention here - sincerely, and respectfully, but pay very close attention:

If you aren't gathering data on both success and failure, which clearly shows specific tech was directly involved in a hunter's success - while also showing lack of that tech was more pronounced in those failing to fill their tag - then all of this is just assumption-laden policy-making by emotion and feeling.

And that is the very antithesis of good governance.

Is that how you want Utah governed? The same way some 3rd world $h*thole is governed?

Is that how you want your dad governed? By feelings?

Give me legit data. Everything else is opinion.

After trying it a few years, there will be data. This isn’t something that is set and stone (at least not in Utah). If it doesn’t at least help, switch back and try something else.

 

[flyfisher117]

Wrong, I’m on the tech committee in Utah, I’m in my 20s and liked the idea of trying something to offset how efficient we are getting with all the new tech.

Something has to give and maybe limiting technology will help with that.

Not “wrong” there’s literally been Rokcast episodes where guests talk about it. They got to “experience” it all and now want it changed. One of the biggest proponents for pushing the changes on the Cache unit is now up here in Idaho pushing the same narrative.

Since you’re on the committee can you provide a solution for the older hunters who can’t shoot irons? Or should they just wing it and lob rounds blindly at game?

 

[Flyjunky]

In the units Utah started doing that this year, all of them are moved to primitive. After couple years we’ll have numbers to go off of and see if it’s moving the needle or not.

How many tags do you think were moved to primitive? Were the season dates kept the same or was primitive moved to a more desirable timeframe?

 

[Flyjunky]

After trying it a few years, there will be data. This isn’t something that is set and stone (at least not in Utah). If it doesn’t at least help, switch back and try something else.

It’s going to take way more than a few years to get solid data.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Count me as a proponent. I had a blast on my Utah restricted rifle hunt, both in the field and in the months leading up to it refining new gear. I wouldn’t have been able to draw that tag for at least another two years before the restricted change dropped the number of points required.

 

[nevadabugle]

So, it’s really not about helping numbers, just opportunity?

Once again, a band aid fix isn’t going to move the needle. Just delaying things while numbers keep dropping.

Let’s put some numbers to this then.

How many rifle tags would be moved to primitive, open sights?

1. Numbers is about the survival and recruitment of females. Hard stop. Don't shoot does, and that's about all harvest adjustments can do for population numbers.

2. Several in this thread seemed concerned about trophy quality. Put a bunch of Primitive weapons guys in the field who are happy with any buck, and I bet your overall age class will improve. Maybe im wrong, but that's what Utah is studying now. I will be happy to admit im wrong once Utahs studies are complete.

3. And yes, in some states, opportunity is exactly what these hunts will help with. Maybe that's not the case in Idaho (although I did not draw an Idaho archery mule deer tag for the last two years) But in Oregon, Nevada, and Utah it is. Many folks going half a decade plus without a deer tag.

4. Not sure about the tag number for Idaho, as its not even approved yet. But I'll give you some for Oregon, in the unit I've been discussing. 50 rifle tags and up to 300 traditional archery tags. Those 50 rifle tags kill as many bucks as the 300 trad tags (they don't sell them all every year either, closer to 150 hunters). With 150 hunter ans 15% success that's like 22 deer. So yep, opportunity increases because of these hunts. Period.

 

[cal30_sniper]

How many tags do you think were moved to primitive? Were the season dates kept the same or was primitive moved to a more desirable timeframe?

I believe the unit I hunted moved over a thousand tags to primitive rifle (all general season rifle tags in that unit). Season dates were the same as general season unrestricted rifle in any other unit.

 

[nevadabugle]

Count me as a proponent. I had a blast on my Utah restricted rifle hunt, both in the field and in the months leading up to it refining new gear. I wouldn’t have been able to draw that tag for at least another two years before the restricted change dropped the number of points required.

Its almost like it increased opportunity....appreciate you sharing. Glad it was positive.

 

[nevadabugle]

It’s going to take way more than a few years to get solid data.

Ok, so what? Its gonna take too long to find solutions? So its not worth trying? All I hear day in and day out is how horrible mule deer hunting is, west wide. So let's try something different?

What's wrong with that?

 

[Sully_44]

Not “wrong” there’s literally been Rokcast episodes where guests talk about it. They got to “experience” it all and now want it changed. One of the biggest proponents for pushing the changes on the Cache unit is now up here in Idaho pushing the same narrative.

Since you’re on the committee can you provide a solution for the older hunters who can’t shoot irons? Or should they just wing it and lob rounds blindly at game?

If you’re talking about when Travis was talking about appreciating Utah trying something and he’s on a committee trying to do the same thing in Idaho then I guess guys like him are making the changes in both states.

The solution I see for the older hunters is apply for hunts with scoped rifles. I recognize that I will eventually get too old to hunt the way I like to in the places I like to. It’s a reality we’ll all face. Adjust and go hunt a new unit if you’re blessed to still be able to hunt. That’s the way I see it, and it may sound harsh, especially as someone who’s young, but I also believe it’s reality.