IADNR bans cell cam "scouting" during hunting season

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This is good. Rich people are running 100 cell cams on 14 different properties and only going to the one with their stupid named deer when it shows up.

That’s not hunting.

Just my opinion but I put cell cams right there with drones.

^^^ This right here.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Cell cams not being fair chase is just YOUR opinion. I have no problem waiting 12 or 24hrs to see pictures. I just think that is impossible to enforce.

So are you for or against using cell cams during a hunt? It sounds like you're against it if you're comfortable waiting 12 or 24 hours. To your point, it is difficult to enforce, thus a total ban during the season is the only effective way without jackasses leveraging every loophole there is to justify the practice.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Wait you've never used them ? So You have zero experience with what it's like to hunt with them ? But you know the way you do it is better? That's impressive

LOL! If you read my posts, you'd have seen that I indeed have used trail cams before. The only advantage I saw with cell cams was not having to go swap cards and get my scent all over every few weeks. Then guys started using them to track the movements of every deer on their places and to enable them to drop everything and go kill them.

I never once said they way I hunt is better. AGAIN, I and others are advocating for the resource, not the way we hunt. This isn't a hard distinction. If I wanted to i could go buy a dozen cell cams today and get all set up. This isn't a have vs. have nots discussion. Its about what's best for the DEER, not the hunters.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

yeah.. didn't say land owners own the wildlife but you own the land.. who are they to tell you you can't put a camera up around gates or cattle or buildings. Personally i dont think we need more laws and gov intervention

AGAIN. I'm talking about using them during a hunt. Using them for monitoring access and trespassing is a great use of the tool.

 

[SandyCreek]

AGAIN. I'm talking about using them during a hunt. Using them for monitoring access and trespassing is a great use of the tool.

right, but how will they apply that? I have no desire to kill a buck based of real time cell cams, but if someone else does i really don't care. Probably need to see how the law is actually written but i could very easily see them writing me a ticket if I am hunting and have cell cams up for security purposes even though the burden of proof lies on them. Just seems like a mess, if they want to do it on public land go ahead but it just sticks in my throat on the private land and how/when it will be enforced.

 

[Hoodie]

I always hear similar moaning about fair chase when people find out I'm out during my pre-season scouting tranquilizing velvet bucks and putting GPS collars on them.

You still have to catch up with them!

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Probably need to see how the law is actually written but i could very easily see them writing me a ticket if I am hunting and have cell cams up for security purposes even though the burden of proof lies on them. Just seems like a mess, if they want to do it on public land go ahead but it just sticks in my throat on the private land and how/when it will be enforced.

Agree this is going to be a challenge. Like any LE officer, game wardens will have to use their discretion and determine "intent". Some will get it right and some will get it wrong. However, IME, if you don't come off as a dirtbag that is trying to "skirt" the law with loopholes, you may simply get an explanation vs. a ticket. If you're breaking the law, game wardens have the choice to write you a ticket(s) or a warning based on your attitude and their perception of intent. Again, some are good and get it right, and others, not so much.

 

[cj13]

Devil will be in the details of course, but seems reasonable to me. Ia public land I have heard a few people comment about being caught on multiple cell cams on public land being more or less unavoidable and it being kind of a crappy experience as result, as well as it discouraging people from hunting in areas with cameras, so whether intended or not it is resulting in areas being “claimed”. I havent personally seen it so cant comment on the reality, just relating.

Fwiw NH has a reg preventing use for hunting, you can either not download pics until after a hunt or set it to delay sending for 24hrs with some brands. Obviously some people chafe at this, but the folks I know that work within it are generally pretty supportive and its not really an onerous requirement. I own and use cell cams year round, its fun as hell and the wife and I drink coffee and look at pics nearly every morning. I would not have a problem with it if I had to keep on private or delay pics in-season or similar.

I do think the distinction between situations in various states is important on this topic—use of tools that increase efficacy is different between a state with draw-hunts only and limited opportunity, versus a state with multiple otc tags available for a 3 or 4+ month season with the express goal of reducing a population, as well as states with lots of public vs very little public hunting opportunity.

I DONT think size/score of a buck or convenience of being able to scout on a distant area is relevant to the issue, have seen that brought up around the issue.

Last year I found 6 or 7 cell cams in a small 30ish acre area and atleast 5 stands in the few trees that were there and you could tell they had been there for multiple years. Definitely takes away from the experience when you're constantly looking for cameras just to make sure you're not getting recorded and when people use them to "claim" spots

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[MallardSX2]

Anything left on public land should be treated as trash and should be subject to pirate law....

There. I said it.

 

[MuleyFever]

Its about what's best for the DEER, not the hunters.

This is what is lost with too many hunters today. People dont care about the resource, they only care about getting what is "theirs".

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Anything left on public land should be treated as trash and should be subject to pirate law....

There. I said it.

Gotta get that booty! Arrrrrr!

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This is what is lost with too many hunters today. People dont care about the resource, they only care about getting what is "theirs".

^^^This right here!!!

 

[*zap*]

I never cared much about using game cams and never used a cell cam. Enjoy your hunt.

 

[Elkangle]

LOL! If you read my posts, you'd have seen that I indeed have used trail cams before. The only advantage I saw with cell cams was not having to go swap cards and get my scent all over every few weeks. Then guys started using them to track the movements of every deer on their places and to enable them to drop everything and go kill them.

I never once said they way I hunt is better. AGAIN, I and others are advocating for the resource, not the way we hunt. This isn't a hard distinction. If I wanted to i could go buy a dozen cell cams today and get all set up. This isn't a have vs. have nots discussion. Its about what's best for the DEER, not the hunters.

I read your post, you said you hadn't used cell cams...now your stating the only advantage to using a cell cam is not putting your scent out.. but in other posts if you use a cell camera it's basically a tracking device and no longer fair chase


If this is about what's best for the deer then using cameras is greatly beneficial. Is the deer herd suffering?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I respect your approach I really do..you and a few others just have a perception of these big deer camps that simply isn't true. Like I've I said I've done it...and I've done it lots, is it a different dynamic? Sure. Could they be used in a distasteful way.. absolutely.... but the vast vast majority is not

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

So, what are you communists gonna lobby to have banned in 2 years when the same guy you're jealous of is still knocking down giants?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I read your post, you said you hadn't used cell cams...now your stating the only advantage to using a cell cam is not putting your scent out.. but in other posts if you use a cell camera it's basically a tracking device and no longer fair chase

I quote myself, "...indeed I have used trail cams before. The only advantage I saw with cell cams was not having to go swap cards and get my scent all over every few weeks. Then guys started using them to track the movements of every deer on their places and to enable them to drop everything and go kill them."

The part in bold is what I'm talking about re: fair chase. I believe that originally cell cams were intended to let guys take pics without stinking up the area changing cards and batteries every few weeks. This was a great idea!

Then guys realized that if they put enough cell cams out in strategic locations, like several different well-used travel corridors adjacent to bedding areas, they could essentially pinpoint movement and patterns.

Using this strategy, cell cams enable guys to see if a buck chooses door 1, 2, or 3, when leaving his bed, and give hunters enough time to drop everything and go intercept it, using near real time data on the way to the farm to fine tune the pursuit.

Hell's bells, a guy could realistically book an outfitted hunt, sleep in most days, and wait for buck "X" to get up from bedding before ever leaving the lodge.

This is not fair chase or hunting in my humble opinion. This is an electronic stakeout and the antithesis of hunting.

If this is about what's best for the deer then using cameras is greatly beneficial. Is the deer herd suffering?

It is greatly beneficial to the hunter only, with few exceptions re: potentially identifying sick or injured animals.

No, the herd isn't suffering. However, the odds of success are grossly stacked in hunters' favor.

We used to respect whitetails for their sense of smell, ability to spot movement, and having a "6th sense". They used to be called the "Grey Ghost" and and have mythical status as unpredictable and in some ways superior to hunters. Instead of embracing these virtues, with cell cams some are stripping away all the qualities of deer that used to inspire the thrill of the hunt. The challenge is being lost, and its becoming all about the kill.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I respect your approach I really do..you and a few others just have a perception of these big deer camps that simply isn't true. Like I've I said I've done it...and I've done it lots, is it a different dynamic? Sure. Could they be used in a distasteful way.. absolutely.... but the vast vast majority is not

If you look at the 2023 survey results that I posted. Slightly more hunters believe that cell cams influence fair chase than do not (37% vs 36%). I am not alone, and I know deer hunters and deer hunting in Iowa. Unfortunatley, friends and even relatives can act very differently during deer season, and some are willing to do whatever it takes for the grip and grin.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

So, what are you communists gonna lobby to have banned in 2 years when the same guy you're jealous of is still knocking down giants?

LMAO! You are the stereotype that literally proves the point. I harbor zero jealousy about the "giants" other guys are knocking down. I've killed more P&Y deer than the average guy without ever using a cell cam. I could buy a truckload of them today if I wanted to cheat and kill big bucks to show how good a hunter I am or to post pics to the 'gram.

If some you guys think you know what fair chase means, I encourage you to go out west and hunt whitetails, mulies, antelope, or elk away from ag fields without cameras. Maybe go out east and hunt whitetails in big timber. My '21 elk hunt and the animal I was absolutely blessed to kill helped me realize that most midwesterners that are used to deer drives and ag fields have no idea what it's really like to pursue big game via fair chase. They'd rather go to the IA Deer Classic and brag to their buddies over some 20oz Busch Lights about the giant "hit list" buck they killed over their "kill plot" in front off their cell cam. "I got it all right there on video..." SMH...

 

[Elkangle]

No, the herd isn't suffering.

Perfect, then we can agree this isn't about the deer and it's about the perceived ethics of using trail cameras in which you have no experience with.

I live out west and have hunted every dynamic out there extensively...one isnt better then another..its up to the hunter to decide what his preference is

one week it's trail cameras, the next it's 1x scopes on muzzys, then it's how many assistant guides...then it's draw systems...radios... then hunters orange...next thing you know I gotta wear a stupid orange hat because a vest isn't enough..open sight rifle units ?? The quest for change literally never ends because of false perceptions.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Perfect, then we can agree this isn't about the deer and it's about the perceived ethics of using trail cameras in which you have no experience with.

I'm not sure how else to explain this to you. I DO indeed have experience using trail cameras. However, there is a tremendous difference between cameras that transmit pictures in near real time and those that do not. If you cannot acknowledge this, then you're either in denial, naive, or ignorant.

I live out west and have hunted every dynamic out there extensively...one isnt better then another..its up to the hunter to decide what his preference is

Agree to disagree. Any time hunters have disproportionate advantages over the game animals they're pursuing, it's no longer hunting, it's simply killing.

one week it's trail cameras, the next it's 1x scopes on muzzys, then it's how many assistant guides...then it's draw systems...radios... then hunters orange...next thing you know I gotta wear a stupid orange hat because a vest isn't enough..open sight rifle units ?? The quest for change literally never ends because of false perceptions.

I agree it can be maddening trying to keep up with the changes and the justifications, and for the record, I'm not anti-change. For example, in Iowa centerfire rifles were illegal for whitetails up until 2017 when straight walls were first legalized. However, it was legal to hunt coyotes with high powers for decades prior.

In 2022, Iowa (finally) made bottleneck cartridges legal statewide as long as they were .350" up to .50". Smaller centerfire calibers were and continue to be legal in the southern two tiers of counties for special January doe hunts. Myself and scores of other hunters applauded this common sense move, because it gave hunters the opportunity to hunt deer with increased precision over straight walls, slugs, and muzzleloaders. Others clamored that the sky was falling and that the DNR was going to ruin deer hunting in Iowa even though they didn't change the tag structure, simply the means of take.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

LMAO! You are the stereotype that literally proves the point. I harbor zero jealousy about the "giants" other guys are knocking down. I've killed more P&Y deer than the average guy without ever using a cell cam. I could buy a truckload of them today if I wanted to cheat and kill big bucks to show how good a hunter I am or to post pics to the 'gram.

If some you guys think you know what fair chase means, I encourage you to go out west and hunt whitetails, mulies, antelope, or elk away from ag fields without cameras. Maybe go out east and hunt whitetails in big timber. My '21 elk hunt and the animal I was absolutely blessed to kill helped me realize that most midwesterners that are used to deer drives and ag fields have no idea what it's really like to pursue big game via fair chase. They'd rather go to the IA Deer Classic and brag to their buddies over some 20oz Busch Lights about the giant "hit list" buck they killed over their "kill plot" in front off their cell cam. "I got it all right there on video..." SMH.

Calling me a stereotype without articulation after a one sentence response is just word salad for you not having a point. There has got to be a massive correlation between reading people poorly on no information and feeling entitled to make decisions for them.

I've DIY hunted Whitetails in over 20 states and 3 provinces, 7 last year. Only 2 of the Canadian hunts we're guided because that's the law. P&Y sized bucks haven't been special in a long time, In fact about 2 hours from now a buck that's near 125" already will be at my wife's bird feeder. PA, Vt and NW Ontario big woods tracking.. Done it. North Florida, and Alabama Pine plantations... Been there. Sitting Energy cuts in Alberta and Saskatchewan... Sure. Western glassing and copious land ownership determination... Yup. I love Cell cams because I own land in IL, IN, and Mi. with KS. soon to follow so knowing what's going on up to 750 miles from home matters. I've also hunted another 25 odd species of big game mostly DIY and mostly spot and stalk so long as you're conjecting my experience.

This law is 100% some people want to control what other people do. There is Zero documented support cell cams have any negative macro impact on Whitetail deer. In fact, a very solid case can be made age structures are universally improved allowing the strongest and most diverse genetics to be propagated.

You Failed.