How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

None of those guys in the WY corner crossing case have 8000 messages on Rokslide.

Some people bitch and moan and others take action.

Who’s going to BOG this year? I’ll buy the first beer. <Rokslide Randy googles what is BOG>

Oh snap, another post count insult! This was fun last time.

4,626 days since @Lawnboi joined on Mar 2, 2012. 8,309 posts....math....1.79 posts per day.

161 days since @FAAFO joined on May 23, 2024. More math....2.18 posts per day.

 

[Bubblehide]

Oh snap, another post count insult! This was fun last time.

4,626 days since @Lawnboi joined on Mar 2, 2012. 8,309 posts....math....1.79 posts per day.

161 days since @FAAFO joined on May 23, 2024. More math....2.18 posts per day.

Do likes and emojis count?

 

[Bubblehide]

What if your dog came from Wyoming, can you go in the wilderness with him and it’s all good?

As long as you register him or her as a guide,

 

[Jason Snyder]

I've got to completely disagree. There was no grey area in the corner crossing case, as planes fly over private daily = no harm, necessary, legal. This case is also clear as indicated in the court dissent that was posted, but the violations are broader than that court dissent IMNSHO. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. But time will tell.

Actually there was gray area, and it was how much airspace, if any, is protected by private property boundaries.

It’s still a gray area as it has not been reviewed by the USSC and the another judicial circuit is not necessarily bound by this decision, nor would it prevent a state from attempting to define corner crossing as a form of trespass that would require further challenge.

The WY outfitter state is very cut and dried as to what it defines. Could the USSC find it unconstitutional? Sure it could. Personally, I highly doubt it but you are correct in that it’s only my opinion and I didn’t stay at Holiday In Express.

 

[Flyjunky]

you said it was "outfitter welfare", it is, same as some other states provide

It is if you want to hunt wilderness….what this thread is about.

Give me the rationale behind it if it’s not anything other than a money grab.

 

[Bubblehide]

it’s only my opinion and I didn’t stay at Holiday In Express.

See how much we have in common.

 

[tdhanses]

There’s no law against nonresidents visiting wilderness areas. Go there as often as you want. The state does own the wildlife so if you just can’t hunt anywhere you want.

It is an interesting point, yes the state owns the wildlife, that’s not anything anyone is questioning and they state issues tags directly to NR, so wildlife ownership and tags aren’t even the issue. It’s not allowing a citizen to then hunt on federal land after giving them the right to take an animal that is in question.

Not sure anyone has really brought it up that the state directly gave out the tag for a certain area, they didn’t require the nonresident to buy it directly from an outfitter and then restrict them to hunt the outfitters permitted area.

 

[tdhanses]

Everyone wants something for nothing. They see taking something that isn’t theirs as a good thing.

Yeah very true, especially in government handouts, so many think they deserve handouts these days.

 

[wapitibob]

It is if you want to hunt wilderness….what this thread is about.

Give me the rationale behind it if it’s not anything other than a money grab.

We're saying the same thing. It was brought forth by WYOGO, for the benefit of WYOGO.

 

[Bubblehide]

Apples to oranges. Planes have to fly over 500’ above private land.

If the corner isn’t surveyed how do you know you’re not stepping on somones land? Your GPS isn’t THAT accurate.

Very gray.

The Latin term that our legal system utilizes for land ownership translates to (roughly) ownership from heaven to hell. Meaning all the way down and all the way up. If the corner crossing case went the other way, it would be back in court for air travel. That case could only be ruled one way based on modern society. So no, not grey at all. But you're entit lo ed to think it is.

 

[Bubblehide]

How do planes get permission to fly over all that private land

Thanks for making my point!

 

[tdhanses]

There is an entire Newberg podcast on understanding why Wyoming can do whatever they want. Non-residents are not stakeholders of the states wildlife trust.

The North American model never had anything to do with non-resident hunting. That was not the intent. It has everything to do with protecting wildlife as a trust for residents of that state.

Yeah but then WY should make the wilderness areas specific units to draw and not allow a general tag to be used there. Make the tags go directly through outfitters, then they would actually be doing what you say but when the state sell the NR a valid tag that covers a wide swath of land they have provide the NR the right to hunt that species. Wilderness doesn’t even apply to drawing the tag, it’s after the fact once the NR has the right to hunt the animal.

 

[wapitibob]

What’s the Latin term for trespassing because your GPS is off? Or the corner wasn’t surveyed correctly?

How do planes get permission to fly over all that private land

This 8 pages is following the same dipshittery as every other nr wilderness law thread over the last 15 years.

 

[tdhanses]

so much for Rinella and internet forum lawyers

Just like Roe v Wade would never be overturned?

 

[tdhanses]

The ticket would just say alleged violation of WY Statute 23-2-401(a).

Haha, did you get one

 

[johnnycake]

Actually in this case NR were drawing in excess of 30 tags almost every year. And this year they drew over 40 IIRC. So this is a reduction in NR tags. Yes some go to outfitters but honestly the pie goes to whomever shows up to eat it.

I'm aware, and I'm aware of that line of argument that RHAK and others used in the proposals and comments. Reread what I wrote. The fact that for some years the random draw happened to spit out a large number of NR applicants is just pure luck. It was not a guaranteed NR allocation. The folks pissed that NRs happened to get lucky should have proposed a cap on NR successful applications (ie, no more than 10% could go to NRs, but the draw might still result in 0 successful NRs). I even wouldn't have been so pissed about this if it were just a clean NR allocation without requiring a guide. But instead the board of game gave another welfare cookie to guides and carved a guaranteed 14.67% NR allocation for a hunt with sub 4% draw odds.

The Wyoming wilderness rule is horseshit. The AK must be guided/2nd degree kindred for grizz, sheep, and goats is horseshit. And any allocation to guided only permits is horseshit.

 

[tdhanses]

The Latin term that our legal system utilizes for land ownership translates to (roughly) ownership from heaven to hell. Meaning all the way down and all the way up. If the corner crossing case went the other way, it would be back in court for air travel. That case could only be ruled one way based on modern society. So no, not grey at all. But you're entit lo ed to think it is.

So do we own land in China? Since the planet isn’t flat

 

[wapitibob]

Just like Roe v Wade would never be overturned?

Somebody start calling lawyers, if they find one that'll sue the State of Wyoming to overturn a Statute that benefits the states outfitters, let me know. I'll send $100 for the cause.

 

[tdhanses]

I'm aware, and I'm aware of that line of argument that RHAK and others used in the proposals and comments. Reread what I wrote. The fact that for some years the random draw happened to spit out a large number of NR applicants is just pure luck. It was not a guaranteed NR allocation. The folks pissed that NRs happened to get lucky should have proposed a cap on NR successful applications (ie, no more than 10% could go to NRs, but the draw might still result in 0 successful NRs). I even wouldn't have been so pissed about this if it were just a clean NR allocation without requiring a guide. But instead the board of game gave another welfare cookie to guides and carved a guaranteed 14.67% NR allocation for a hunt with sub 4% draw odds.

The Wyoming wilderness rule is horseshit. The AK must be guided/2nd degree kindred for grizz, sheep, and goats is horseshit. And any allocation to guided only permits is horseshit.

He’s probably a guide.

 

[tdhanses]

Start calling lawyers, when you find one that'll sue the State of Wyoming to overturn a Statute that benefits the states outfitters, let me know. I'll send $100 for the cause.

Naw not my fight, just stating cases get reversed all the time, at some point they’ll offend someone that doesn’t care about the cost.

I’m letting all my WY points expire, the future isn’t good for NR as all tags I bet are seriously limited in the next 10 yrs there anyway. So I’ll give other NR more opportunity.

I bet at some point I’ll be able to just buy a tag through an outfitter, so pref pts would be a waste as well if I do ever want to go back.

But fact is WY is an Outfitter welfare state, same as a few other states.