How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[tdhanses]

What are the success rates of guided hunts?

It’s not about harvest, it’s about the quality of the hunt. Look at kodiak, getting ran over by NR is the only reason they changed it to 1 buck. They thought that would limit NR from coming up. They were wrong. Early Oct used to be slow for deer hunters on kodiak. Now it’s busier than ever. Everyone wants a piece.

The last thing we need is Rokslide Randy running all over shooting sows, sublegal sheep etc. look at the “perceived” issue of NR hunting out of Kotz. Now it’s limited not only for NR hunters but non locals.

Fock that. I can see the merits of the guide requirement. At one time I thought it was all “bullshit” too. But as I see less and less country to hunt and more people I’m fricking thankful it’s in place now.

Ok and you think quality would decrease? 90% of those that go on outfitted hunts wouldn’t get more then half a mile off a trail, do you see NR’s all over hunting moose?

Most NR’s would never step foot on Kodiak alone, without guides you would see a vast reduction in NR’s even trying.

Fact is, AK is a dream for most NR’s but put them in the environment alone and their fear will take care of them going far, some would be very successful but the majority would be too out of shape or scared to make it work.

Also there are NR tag quotas for a reason to limit any overrun, guide aren’t keeping NR in check, if there are only so many tags there are only so many and the success rate will probably be 5%.

If outfitters went away there would be fewer NR in most places. You seem to think without outfitters NR’s will have unlimited access and flood areas.

 

[Lawnboi]

Who is this Randy guy and what did he do?

 

[StupidLightweight]

Wow, I take the kids trick or treating for a few hours, and this thread goes full Sarah Palin!

 

[johnnycake]

why do you want to restrict hunters so much? The EO would happen so quick likely less bears will be taken.

You do know that all of the registration brown bear hunts already have management plans that dictate a maximum number of harvest limit and limit of sows in a given period, right? Same as goats. Won't change a thing if you let NRs waste their $1000 on buying a tag "just in case". And the interior areas that have very healthy levels of grizz (a huge area allows you to kill 2) can absolutely sustain higher harvest.

And it's really funny to see the supporters of the guide requirement when years like last year showed guided clients killed just about as many sublegal rams as residents.

 

[Steve O]

Listening to a podcast toady and they brought up the idea of states offering reciprocity in reference to hunting laws. The example that caught my attention was the Wyoming ban on non resident hunters to be on federally designated wilderness, alone. What neighboring states like Montana and Idaho could do to combat this is pass a mandate that basically says 'non residents from another state are subjected to the same mandates that exist in their home state'. By doing this, Montana residents could hunt Idaho wilderness and vice versa, but since Wyoming does not allow folks from other states to hunt 'their'(our?) wilderness, they would not be allowed to hunt the wilderness areas in either Montana or Idaho.

To state the obvious; if Wyoming residents wanted to continue to enjoy the same benefit of hunting wilderness in other states, they could go to their own game commission to get the ban overturned in Wyoming. Thus creating a situation where they control their own access to wilderness areas in other states.

Full disclosure, I have never hunted Wyoming, but will some day and I damn sure wouldn't hire a guide to hunt so as it stands now hunting the wilderness there is out of the question.

My opinion is obviously self serving, but for the life of me I can't poke a hole in this, so I am interested in the discussion.

Your big mistake is listening to that cancerous podcast.

 

[FAAFO]

Ok and you think quality would decrease? 90% of those that go on outfitted hunts wouldn’t get more then half a mile off a trail, do you see NR’s all over hunting moose?

Most NR’s would never step foot on Kodiak alone, without guides you would see a vast reduction in NR’s even trying.

Fact is, AK is a dream for most NR’s but put them in the environment alone and their fear will take care of them going far, some would be very successful but the majority would be too out of shape or scared to make it work.

Also there are NR tag quotas for a reason to limit any overrun, guide aren’t keeping NR in check, if there are only so many tags there are only so many and the success rate will probably be 5%.

If outfitters went away there would be fewer NR in most places. You seem to think without outfitters NR’s will have unlimited access and flood areas.

Yes quality of the hunt would decrease. Example: haul road caribou. Example kodiak deer hunts. Used to never see other hunters on your fly in kodiak hunt. Not anymore

Are you a guide? Clients are all different experience levels. There’s a lot that go guided for everything but also a lot that do not except only where required. We can’t carry them up the mountain. They still have to do it.

Most NR would never step foot on kodiak? Tell me you know nothing about alaska without telling me you know nothing about alaska

Yeah I get it AK is the dream for a lot. Even more reason to find ways to limit NR. We need more restrictions. And they are coming. The best part is is the NR DIY hunter is going to get F’d because he doesn’t show up. Just complains.

Guides are definitely keeping NR sheep, mt goat and Brown bear in check. Proof is in the pudding. You obviously know nothing about Alaska but here’s a fun fact. alaska has unlimited NR sheep tags and BB tags. Yep. What keeps it in check???

If the requirement for an outfitter went way we would have way more NR. Fact. And it doesn’t matter because it won’t happen. In a perfect world I would like to see NR go guided for everything at this point. What state has unlimited NR moose tags? Alaska does and it’s time for it to stop.

 

[FAAFO]

You do know that all of the registration brown bear hunts already have management plans that dictate a maximum number of harvest limit and limit of sows in a given period, right? Same as goats. Won't change a thing if you let NRs waste their $1000 on buying a tag "just in case". And the interior areas that have very healthy levels of grizz (a huge area allows you to kill 2) can absolutely sustain higher harvest.

And it's really funny to see the supporters of the guide requirement when years like last year showed guided clients killed just about as many sublegal rams as residents.

You do know what happens the following year when the quota goes over right? Do you know what % of the quota is actually the management goal?

That’s a great data point on ONE year that the guided matched the resident. Did you know on 3 of those guided hunts the client was the only one with a ticket because they shot the wrong ram?

Do you honestly believe if sheep opened to every NR sublegal take wouldn’t skyrocket?

Hell a resident military guy who just moved here shot a dall sheep ewe thinking he shot the world record goat. How’s that for a stat. I know i know. It was just one year like your pathetic sublegal stat. Well last year same hunt TWO dall sheep ewes were killed by residents thinking they were mountain goats. How often will that happen if we open it to NR? You know how many times a NR has shot a dall sheep ewe thinking it was a mt goat? ZERO.

 

[Ten Bears]

Looks like Buzz has a new profile on here.

 

[Lawnboi]

I wish I could be more involved and fly to meetings in Alaska but I’m too busy begging for food at the stop light.

 

[johnnycake]

You do know what happens the following year when the quota goes over right? Do you know what % of the quota is actually the management goal?

That’s a great data point on ONE year that the guided matched the resident. Did you know on 3 of those guided hunts the client was the only one with a ticket because they shot the wrong ram?

Do you honestly believe if sheep opened to every NR sublegal take wouldn’t skyrocket?

Hell a resident military guy who just moved here shot a dall sheep ewe thinking he shot the world record goat. How’s that for a stat. I know i know. It was just one year like your pathetic sublegal stat. Well last year same hunt TWO dall sheep ewes were killed by residents thinking they were mountain goats. How often will that happen if we open it to NR? You know how many times a NR has shot a dall sheep ewe thinking it was a mt goat? ZERO.

If you want to cherry pick bad actions, there's a wealth of awful to pick from the guiding industry.

And no, I really don't think sublegal ram take would skyrocket. I think the state would take in millions of dollars after PR matching, enabling us to better fund wildlife law enforcement, biologists, etc. And year after year most of those NRs would go home with uncut tags, many having quit very early on once they realize just how daunting the task is.

And sublegal ram take by guided clients happens every damn year. And is often not that different than resident sublegal take.
Which makes sense given how many inexperienced NRs are being farmed out as assistant guides under a master guide license. Because the justifications for the guide requirement are bullshit.

 

[Gobbler36]

Yes…so corrupt to limit the activities one can do on 5 percent of the states public land. This should really rally people to the cause. If this is corruption let’s triage it with the corruption that blatantly occurs outside of this minor inconvenience…I’m guessing it would be pretty far down the list on what states are doing that can be classified as “corrupt.”

If it’s not corruption that a state restricts certain activities on federal land for a group of people that helps pay for said land all for the benefit of a lobbying group than I guess I don’t know what corruption is.

Do you enjoy hunting federally designated wilderness areas in other states?

 

[IDVortex]

I got to page 8 and got bored reading the shit show. But what i gathered, ID should just ban all NR. That way the 2 or 3 WY hunters who come here will look at changing their laws. And it'll limit how many folks realize how much of a POS this state and move here.

 

[tdhanses]

Yes quality of the hunt would decrease. Example: haul road caribou. Example kodiak deer hunts. Used to never see other hunters on your fly in kodiak hunt. Not anymore

Are you a guide? Clients are all different experience levels. There’s a lot that go guided for everything but also a lot that do not except only where required. We can’t carry them up the mountain. They still have to do it.

Most NR would never step foot on kodiak? Tell me you know nothing about alaska without telling me you know nothing about alaska

Yeah I get it AK is the dream for a lot. Even more reason to find ways to limit NR. We need more restrictions. And they are coming. The best part is is the NR DIY hunter is going to get F’d because he doesn’t show up. Just complains.

Guides are definitely keeping NR sheep, mt goat and Brown bear in check. Proof is in the pudding. You obviously know nothing about Alaska but here’s a fun fact. alaska has unlimited NR sheep tags and BB tags. Yep. What keeps it in check???

If the requirement for an outfitter went way we would have way more NR. Fact. And it doesn’t matter because it won’t happen. In a perfect world I would like to see NR go guided for everything at this point. What state has unlimited NR moose tags? Alaska does and it’s time for it to stop.

So get rid of outfitters and guides and limit sheep and bb tags for NR’s, pretty easy.

 

[Gobbler36]

free market capitalism
Eliminate guide and outfitter welfare in all states and the ones that stay afloat will do so because of a good service and reputation
Prices would likely come to be reasonable and some people would try to tackle a DIY sheep or a wilderness hunt in WY realize how hard it is and return again and pay for a guide to have a better chance at success

The guide industry doesn’t need to go away just quit getting subsidized by the states and be forced to run a good business to stay in business

 

[FAAFO]

I wish I could be more involved and fly to meetings in Alaska but I’m too busy begging for food at the stop light.

Move to alaska. You already know about the yearly oil check, and we subsidize you living in the bush. To top it off SUBSISTENCE HUNTING BABY!

 

[FAAFO]

So get rid of outfitters and guides and limit sheep and bb tags for NR’s, pretty easy.

In a world of reduced opportunity why are you trying to reduce it even more?

 

[FAAFO]

free market capitalism
Eliminate guide and outfitter welfare in all states and the ones that stay afloat will do so because of a good service and reputation
Prices would likely come to be reasonable and some people would try to tackle a DIY sheep or a wilderness hunt in WY realize how hard it is and return again and pay for a guide to have a better chance at success

The guide industry doesn’t need to go away just quit getting subsidized by the states and be forced to run a good business to stay in business

 

[FAAFO]

free market capitalism
Eliminate guide and outfitter welfare in all states and the ones that stay afloat will do so because of a good service and reputation
Prices would likely come to be reasonable and some people would try to tackle a DIY sheep or a wilderness hunt in WY realize how hard it is and return again and pay for a guide to have a better chance at success

The guide industry doesn’t need to go away just quit getting subsidized by the states and be forced to run a good business to stay in business

I’m sorry I can’t stop laughing.

That’s a good one.

 

[FAAFO]

If you want to cherry pick bad actions, there's a wealth of awful to pick from the guiding industry.

And no, I really don't think sublegal ram take would skyrocket. I think the state would take in millions of dollars after PR matching, enabling us to better fund wildlife law enforcement, biologists, etc. And year after year most of those NRs would go home with uncut tags, many having quit very early on once they realize just how daunting the task is.

And sublegal ram take by guided clients happens every damn year. And is often not that different than resident sublegal take.
Which makes sense given how many inexperienced NRs are being farmed out as assistant guides under a master guide license. Because the justifications for the guide requirement are bullshit.

I thought we could have a serious conversation but I guess not if you think sublegal harvest wouldn’t shoot up.

Is the state not funded enough? alaska had to give P&R funds back because they didn’t use all the money. Nice try on the P and R angle. But it’s irrelevant. ADFG is flush with money and will be so again if trump does not get in. You know how many states had to give PR funds back? Look it up and it really shows our mismanagement by our ADFG.

Please post your sublegal data. You must be looking at different data than me. If you go by % it’s not even close. If you go just by numbers it’s not comparable either. But hey that one year!

Btw Master guide license is only a title. It doesn’t give you anything more than a registered guide fyi.

We get it, you think it’s BS. Please tell me what other industries do you cherry pick the BS out. What about your own profession? Please tell us.

The world is full of BS. That’s why it’s nice to go do a remote hunt in alaska sometimes…or a lot.

 

[FAAFO]

So get rid of outfitters and guides and limit sheep and bb tags for NR’s, pretty easy.

First we need to get rid of attorneys