How to deal with game wardens?

[eddielasvegas]

West Va, enough said.

Here's a question for members from W. VA. since it was mentioned:

If a husband and wife from W VA get a divorce, are they still considered brother and sister?



Eddie

 

[HvyBeams]

And to think, I was going to say pretty close to the same thing, except for supporting my facts. Who wudda guessed that such programs teach opposite things. Like I said, cops, sherrifs and state police are taught criminal law, not wildlife law. Cops, sheriff and state police do not enforce wildlife law. He'll, they can't even demand to see a hunting license. But hey, you know it all, so I don't even know why I'm trying, but maybe @mtwarden will chime in, if you'll take his word for it.

You stated in your other post, "If you are, have been or are engaged in hunting or fishing, wildlife officers do not need a warrent to search you, your gear, or your vehicle."

Since you want to reference Montana, a simple one minute internet search returns State vs Boyer, 2002. There doesn't appear to be any other case law in Montana that addresses wardens and searches since 2002. The Montana Supreme Court in their decision wrote;

"A warden may search, without a warrant, any tent not used as a residence, any boat, vehicle, box, locker, basket, creel, crate, game bag, or package, or their contents upon probable cause to believe that any fish and game law or department rule for the protection, conservation, or propagation of game, fish, birds, or fur-bearing animals has been violated."

The Montana Supreme Court states PROBABLE CAUSE is required for a warden to conduct a search. The Boyer case takes a turn based upon the circumstances, but you can read all about it. It still doesn't change what we are discussing. Specifically in MT, I would be wrong about a tent and cooler, but they still require PROBABLE CAUSE for a search. In other states, wardens may need a warrant. Again, warrants are issued on, yeah you guessed it, PROBABLE CAUSE.

Administrative inspections allow for such things as game check stations, and in some states traffic stops, depending on state statute. During these inspections a warden, sometimes any employee of GF, can ask for your license and demand you produce any game in your possession. Again, they can't search your vehicle at a check station without probable cause.

The only reason I care about this is some young kid will think just because they were hunting they have to allow a warden to search their person, vehicle, or gear based upon reading your highly inaccurate postings. It's just Urban Legend.

 

[Bubblehide]

You stated in your other post, "If you are, have been or are engaged in hunting or fishing, wildlife officers do not need a warrent to search you, your gear, or your vehicle."

Since you want to reference Montana, a simple one minute internet search returns State vs Boyer, 2002. There doesn't appear to be any other case law in Montana that addresses wardens and searches since 2002. The Montana Supreme Court in their decision wrote;

"A warden may search, without a warrant, any tent not used as a residence, any boat, vehicle, box, locker, basket, creel, crate, game bag, or package, or their contents upon probable cause to believe that any fish and game law or department rule for the protection, conservation, or propagation of game, fish, birds, or fur-bearing animals has been violated."

The Montana Supreme Court states PROBABLE CAUSE is required for a warden to conduct a search. The Boyer case takes a turn based upon the circumstances, but you can read all about it. It still doesn't change what we are discussing. Specifically in MT, I would be wrong about a tent and cooler, but they still require PROBABLE CAUSE for a search. In other states, wardens may need a warrant. Again, warrants are issued on, yeah you guessed it, PROBABLE CAUSE.

Administrative inspections allow for such things as game check stations, and in some states traffic stops, depending on state statute. During these inspections a warden, sometimes any employee of GF, can ask for your license and demand you produce any game in your possession. Again, they can't search your vehicle at a check station without probable cause.

The only reason I care about this is some young kid will think just because they were hunting they have to allow a warden to search their person, vehicle, or gear based upon reading your highly inaccurate postings. It's just Urban Legend.

I never referenced Montana. Perhaps you should read everything I wrote in this thread, so you get an actual understanding and be able to make cogent relevant comments, as I have never limited my comments to a single state. Furthermore, Montana's state regulations do NOT void federal law, nor federal wildlife officers ability to enforce them. You are clearly attempting to argue around your limited knowledge, while refusing to consider facts you are unaware of. The old saying comes to mind: when one thinks they know everything, there is no room to learn. I suggest you read through what I've written, with an open mind. As what you are saying, will get people in multiple states charged.

 

[go_deep]

They're people just like you and me, trying to make a living and to protect the very resource were all out their trying to hunt, fish, and trap.
Give them the respect they deserve.

 

[Mr. October]

Just answer the questions AND know your rights. i.e. you don't have to let them search your pack or your vehicle. 99% of them are good people but you get a power hungry few that are bound and determined to find something and will push the boundaries of legality to do so.

 

[Mr. October]

The mentality of some you guys is surprising to me. Game wardens are absolutely hunters friends unless said hunters are breaking the rules. They are there to protect what we value so much as hunters.

If some guys would invest the time to truly know the rules and regulations, it would eliminate so much stress and change perspectives. It's a great feeling for me to see a game warden while I'm hunting. I know I'm doing everything right and I'm happy they are out there trying to make others to do the same.

For quite a while in PA we had a lot of deputy game wardens who were real asses. They were bound and determined to find something with every encounter to write a ticket for. (No. I never got a ticket.) Some years ago, the PGC finally revamped the whole program and those on a power trip were driven out.

 

[TheCougar]

Be polite and respectful, but I generally don’t offer up any more info than is asked. I have only had one negative warden experience in my life, in AK. After that experience, And after talking to my friends in AK, I treat all AK warden encounters as adversarial and high threat. They are NOT your friends. They are there to write you a citation, and they won’t stop digging until they find one. Every other warden interaction I have had has been just fine.

 

[MallardSX2]

For quite a while in PA we had a lot of deputy game wardens who were real asses. They were bound and determined to find something with every encounter to write a ticket for. (No. I never got a ticket.) Some years ago, the PGC finally revamped the whole program and those on a power trip were driven out.

I had one try to write me a ticket for "Interference" once. The warden said that I told another goose hunter "The game warden was coming down here to check licenses."

When he jumped me and threatened me I told him: " I didn't tell them you were coming. I told them that you just told me there was 7 minutes of legal shooting light left...."

He stormed off. Man that guy was a douche.

I would still like to punch the a$$hole that told him that......

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Woah what a weird thread.

I have nothing to hide, search me daddy government type stuff in here

 

[UpNorth89]

I show them my license, answer their questions respectfully and have always had good experiences. A couple times they've actually gave good tips on critter locations.

 

[Gman12]

I have found that 98% of them are good, normal people and I have no problem with them whatsoever. But, just like in any other profession, there are some who are not so good and will do just about anything to find some sort of miniscule infraction so they can write you a ticket or give you some big rude attitude. You can usually tell within seconds of the interaction.

 

[dtrkyman]

I’ve only had two bad encounters out of dozens. One searched my vehicle before he contacted me, I cussed him!

I actually call them all the time when hunting a new area to confirm an off reg or access questions,always helpful and can point you in the right direction.

If they are checking me I treat them like anyone else.


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[Boarmaster]

I have ran into many GWs. I answer their questions directly and I never volunteered anything beyond other than to talk about the weather. I only ever had one bad encounter. It was back in the late 90s in Ohio. I ran into a GW right at dark in the federal forest. He was all amp’d up and being very aggressive.. He was going on about who’s deer was who’s in our truck a half mile away. I just told him if he want to play whos deer is whos them we could go down to the truck and sort it out. But
I wasnt going to stand up on a ridge in the dark guess which deer he was talking about. There were about five deer in the bed. All legally tagged and accounted for. That pizzed him off I guess. He was just having a bad day maybe. We went down and he met us at the truck and we satified him everything was in order.
We ran up on some local guys at the dinner and mentioned our encounter and described the GW. They said they knew who we were talking about and he had a bad reputation for harassing out of town hunters.
Some years later we got checked by another GW and we mentioned the previous GW. He laughed and said you dont have yo worry about him anymore he only does administrative duties as he had gotten too many complaints.

The only other time .i had a questionable encounter was when I ran up on a GW hunting on my lease. Opening morning of spring gobbler I am hunting a powerline with my decoys out. He drives up and points his shotgun out the window at my decoys. I hollared out to him and he crapped his pants. He got sort of defensive and asked to see my license. I said its the same license you checked twice this year when you came into my camp both times. He was embarrassed and said he now remember who I was.
I told him to relax that me catching him hunting on my lease wasn't going any farther than him and me.
I never saw him again during the next 6 years I had that lease.

The other 20 times I ran up on GWs was very pleasant and professional. But I wasnt under any misconception they werent trying to find some violation. Fortunately I play it by the book.

 

[justinspicher]

I’ve never run into a GW while hunting. I’ve spoke with ours a couple of times in town, while attending school events.

I’ve never had a reason to be anything but polite to them, they’ve never done anything to me. They are just regular folks doing their job.

No reason to be a dick, just to be a dick. Karma is a real thing.

 

[Jimmy]

I think Game wardens have a hard job based off some of these replies.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

So many people think fish and wildlife law is the same as criminal law, i.e., they think there is no difference between being stopped by a cop-police-sherrif or a fish and wildlife officer. They are completely wrong. Wildlife laws are Prima Facia laws. If you are, have been or are engaged in hunting or fishing, wildlife officers do not need a warrent to search you, your gear, or your vehicle. As such, if you appear to potentially be, have been... doing anything illegal, but you haven't, you are better off answering relevant questions, as if you don't, the warden will have no choice but to cite or arrest you. And you be be left with no option but to defend yourself in court.

Can you post or link to what you wrote above?

 

[J_Wilson]

In another long thread, there was a general consensus to STFU and refuse to answer game wardern's questions.

I see the point but I wonder where to draw the line
M:e hello
GW: Hello, can I see you hunting license?
Me: Sure. Here it is.
GW: Where have you been hunting?
GW: How long have you been hunting today?
GW: Can I check your waterfowl shotgun to make sure you have your plug?
GW: Did you get anything?
GW: Can I see you fish/game?
GW: Do you have permission for this field? From whom?
GW: Etc. Etc

I have had many encounters. I have readily answered all those questions. The GWs always did their jobs and moved on.

It seems that refusing to answer those questions would have immediately escalated the situation.

How do other folks deal with these encounters?

Only been stopped twice. I try to be respectful and then we are both on our way. I’m in south central Pa and both time they were fine.

I can see if they start getting intrusive the reason to be short with them. End of the day they can make your life a whole lot worse than the 10 min interaction.

 

[hunt1up]

I think it varies greatly by state. Here in IL I've had 4 interactions, all fine, but much more by-the-book. I had one really great interaction here though. My daughter shot a buck in December on a friend's property. We suspected the deer was dead but never found it. I called the warden in that county in January and said we'd be antler hunting with the hope of finding what was left of her deer. I wanted to be ahead of it since it was out of season and it would require a salvage tag. He said if we find it to call him, but to drop an onX pin on the carcass and take pictures, and he would come out and give me a salvage tag. Well I got lucky and found the deer. I called him and he said he was too far away to come tag it. He advised me to use our automated check-in process online, but since it was out of season it would likely throw a red flag. He said we have a documented text chain and if a flag gets raised he'd take care of it. I checked the deer in online and nothing ever came of it. That dude was extremely helpful and happy we at least found the deer.

I've hunted Wyoming a ton and I must say those wardens are true professionals. I think I've talked to half a dozen over the phone after I'd drawn a tag and they were nothing but welcoming and helpful. My son had a bull tag this year and I was on the phone for 30 minutes with the warden while we both tooled around on OnX and discussed places to look for elk. He had no reason to do that and it was greatly appreciated.

 

[Coveyleader]

I never mention what I’m seeing in terms of animals. It’s always “too hot real slow” and if I have one in the cooler being checked, I’m as vague as I can get about the “where” as they will sell your spot out quickly! They may even hunt themselves.

 

[huntsman22]

Claude Dallas had a unique way of dealing with overbearing wardens......