Help me wrap my head around AB equipment

[Speaks]

Shooting to 500 I keep a dope card on my scope rounded to the nearest half mill for the following ranges (based on a 100 yard zero).

200
300
350
400
450
500

These all also generally align with either the average, good, or bad gun quick drop solutions for all my rifles.

This has been plenty to get to 500 with out much fuss and I dont need any electronics outside of range finding binos. Pushing past 500 I really cant speak to.

 

[BBob]

Hasn’t shot a rifle in 15 years. Wants to be field proficient to 500yds or so within 6 months. Thinks he needs a jillion linked electronic gadgets to do it.

 

[BBob]

Seriously, get yourself a non magnum rifle and just go shoot for a bit. You don’t need all that stuff to be proficient in the field even “out west”. A good rifle, basic rangefinder and the Shooter app will do all you need to do.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

Hasn’t shot a rifle in 15 years. Wants to be field proficient to 500yds or so within 6 months. Thinks he needs a jillion linked electronic gadgets to do it.

View attachment 1012651

To think that guys shoot 1000+ yards with iron sights. Or kill elk with 60 year old rifles and similar vintage scopes. Must just be spraying and getting lucky every now and then.

 

[EastHumboldt]

By the time you get set up and check all this your shot opportunity is gone. Get lots of ammo and a note book. Build you a range card. As a eastern 200 yard hunter try to find a range that you can shoot some distance and learn wind calls as well.

Also I know you think a 12lb rifle will be no big deal, and I see idaho on your list. I've lived and hunted here for 30 years. If you hunt it the way I do you’re gonna wish you would have put that rifle on a diet.

I grew up hunting in the mountains in NV. I live at close to 5,000 ft and regularly hike my dogs at elevations over 7,000. 6’tall 200 lbs. I mention this to say I’m very accustomed to operating in strenuous terrain at high elevation. My experience has taught me that a rifle weighing 7.5lbs feels like I have a dump truck slung on my shoulder at the end of a day in the mountains. I would certainly not want to haul one weighing over 9 lbs. My experience has also taught me that finding deer/ elk and having the ability to get closer is way more important to success than my shooting platform. Which BTW is a 7.5 lb t3 in 7-08. I killed a lot of deer before I even knew rangefinders were a thing because I’m usually able to stalk inside of 200 yards where a rangefinder is insignificant.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Sig rfs are extremely unreliable

 

[hibernation]

Hasn’t shot a rifle in 15 years. Wants to be field proficient to 500yds or so within 6 months.

Yeah, there's a huge gap between "internet expectations" and reality.

OP: if you haven't looked at the annual cold bore challenge threads, I'd strongly suggest reading through those. 400+ yards with a hunting-weight rifle is way more challenging than people give credit for, especially once you're shooting under time constraints, with wind, and away from a benchrest, sandbag, or perfectly flat prone shooting mat.

Thread 'Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting'

Mar 31, 2020

This isn’t in response to anyone I particular, but there is an up tick in the amount of “I want a XXXX distance hunting rifle” traffic the last few months. I am getting a lot of questions relating to this, which I do not mind helping, but thought a public post might help answer some questions. It’s an attempt to get to actually using your rifles.


People online tend to act like 600/800/whatever yards is a rifle, cartridge and BDC scope purchase away. When someone asks for advice, or says I’m building an -insert whatever rifle/cartridge you want-, people are discussing hardware not...

• Formidilosus
• Replies: 868
• Forum: Firearms

• 

You might also try out the hunting drill featured in this post. 20 rounds from field positions, some under time constraints, all at 100 yds on different sized targets. If you can't hit the 2 MOA target from 100yds on demand, quickly, I would reassess your intended hunting distances where there will be even more error from ranging, dialing/holding, wind, etc.

 

[akhunter3]

Wow. Don't forget your iPad for larger GPS maps and maybe you can also find a weather station to attach to your pack.

There is a term for this.....gear queer? I think that's it.

 

[ddowning]

To think that guys shoot 1000+ yards with iron sights. Or kill elk with 60 year old rifles and similar vintage scopes. Must just be spraying and getting lucky every now and then.

No, the most important ingredient is skill. When you put the guys with the best skillset behind the best, most efficient equipment, you get what everyone thinks they can buy with equipment. Take away the skill and you have a miss at best and a wounded animal rodeo at worst. Put the guys with the skill behind lesser equipment and give them the time to vet it and fix short comings...they're still going to kill a pile of shit.

I have an acquaintance that is obsessed with making hits at one mile. He has every gadget imaginable, but no good idea how to use them. He has a lot of trouble getting on steel at triple digit ranges with a 50 bmg. My 10 year old took a 243AI with 115 dtacs to a mile and hit an ipsc 3 times in a magazine. She was 8 at the time. She also had A LOT of skill helping her.

 

[sh4rk]

This is just my opinion here, but a lot of people focus so hard on the "maximize my range" aspect that they start to sacrifice other aspects. It's easy to focus on the "what if" long distance shot, but that's not usually where people blow it.

Elk hunts fail because people never see an elk, that's #1 by a mile and working on that will pay more dividends than anything else.

Next, I'd say they fail because people blow opportunities at moderate range - say, 50 to 300 yards. That doesn't take ballistics or a firing solution, but it does take practice and efficiency with compromised positions. People love to say that practicing at long-distance makes the closer shots easy, but that's really dependent on how you practice.

What I've seen is that people focus so hard on the long distance shot that they start to game it: heavier rifle, bigger cartridge, complicated ballistics, and only shooting from a nice clean range. The same thing happens with archery hunters. At some point, you hurt your ability to make closer shots either because your setup is slow, cumbersome, or because you didn't practice from compromised field positions. People don't like to practice field positions because it's uncomfortable to admit how much we actually suck at them.

If you're new to elk hunting, the ballistics platform is the last thing I'd be focusing on. If the 500yd goal isn't coming out of your own personal experience in an area, your actual success rate would be higher if you spent more time on scouting and the actual elk hunting rather than worrying about ballistics apps and long-range solutions.

100%. Thank you for you input. These questions, and ballistics in general, are just a section of the whole picture. Sure, learning my new rifle system is a focus of that, but so is upping my fitness to accommodate up to 80 more pounds than I normally carry in the mountains, learning game behavior, learning environmentals, scouting, etc. I have a spot in Western WA that I can shoot 300-400 yds and plan to get comfortable with the "weird" shots. I am also a tech nerd and love seeing data and diving deep into it, sometimes to a paralyzing fault (which is why I'm here). Thanks for reining it all back in. Marketing is brutal.

 

[sh4rk]

The primary focus of my point was that many a hunter has been duped into false confidence because they hit some steel at distance at a square range. Doing it at a range once or twice isn't really proofing your ability to do it under a new circumstance with different atmospherics/wind and in a different position. Since moving back to the midwest, I have given up on the idea of shooting animals beyond 500 yards because I just dont get the exposure to western shot conditions to stay proficient. Unless you've shot in a bunch of differing conditions in new places and focus primarily on what happened the first shot - "confidence" is often misguided. The handful of midwest NRL/PRS type competitions a year aren't the same and actually prove that limitation out as much as anything.

Other point was relying on bluetooth connections between devices is asking for trouble IMO. Yeah, probably works most of the time until it doesnt. A little bug that you can work through with endless time on the range becomes a problem in the field.

Well said. Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your perspective and will certainly put more time into the "manual" way. It's easy to get caught in the wave of "Shooting 1000 yards is so easy in 2026", but first hit success doesn't get the same screen time.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

No, the most important ingredient is skill. When you put the guys with the best skillset behind the best, most efficient equipment, you get what everyone thinks they can buy with equipment. Take away the skill and you have a miss at best and a wounded animal rodeo at worst. Put the guys with the skill behind lesser equipment and give them the time to vet it and fix short comings...they're still going to kill a pile of shit.

I have an acquaintance that is obsessed with making hits at one mile. He has every gadget imaginable, but no good idea how to use them. He has a lot of trouble getting on steel at triple digit ranges with a 50 bmg. My 10 year old took a 243AI with 115 dtacs to a mile and hit an ipsc 3 times in a magazine. She was 8 at the time. She also had A LOT of skill helping her.

You missed the point of my post

 

[sh4rk]

Also I know you think a 12lb rifle will be no big deal, and I see idaho on your list. I've lived and hunted here for 30 years. If you hunt it the way I do your gonna wish you would of put that rifle on a diet.

That's a fair point. After exploring this thread, I've considered going with Bergara MgLite in 7PRC instead of the Sawtooth to shave a couple of extra pounds (and match recoil to it). Despite having plenty of time for fitness, I backpack ultralight for a reason: it's just more enjoyable.

 

[sh4rk]

Yeah, there's a huge gap between "internet expectations" and reality.

OP: if you haven't looked at the annual cold bore challenge threads, I'd strongly suggest reading through those. 400+ yards with a hunting-weight rifle is way more challenging than people give credit for, especially once you're shooting under time constraints, with wind, and away from a benchrest, sandbag, or perfectly flat prone shooting mat.

Thread 'Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting'

Mar 31, 2020

This isn’t in response to anyone I particular, but there is an up tick in the amount of “I want a XXXX distance hunting rifle” traffic the last few months. I am getting a lot of questions relating to this, which I do not mind helping, but thought a public post might help answer some questions. It’s an attempt to get to actually using your rifles.


People online tend to act like 600/800/whatever yards is a rifle, cartridge and BDC scope purchase away. When someone asks for advice, or says I’m building an -insert whatever rifle/cartridge you want-, people are discussing hardware not...

• Formidilosus
• Replies: 868
• Forum: Firearms

• 

You might also try out the hunting drill featured in this post. 20 rounds from field positions, some under time constraints, all at 100 yds on different sized targets. If you can't hit the 2 MOA target from 100yds on demand, quickly, I would reassess your intended hunting distances where there will be even more error from ranging, dialing/holding, wind, etc.

Thank you for pointing me in this direction. This will help me establish a goal to track progress against this year.

 

[sh4rk]

I'll admit I've fallen victim to the internet and getting into hunting again has been quite a roller coaster. I appreciate everyone's input in this thread (even the callous responses) to help bring me back down to Earth. I think I'll scratch my tech itch with scouting and nav tools to help get me to, or closer to, an opportunity, while revisiting foundational shooting.

 

[hibernation]

100%. Thank you for you input. These questions, and ballistics in general, are just a section of the whole picture. Sure, learning my new rifle system is a focus of that, but so is upping my fitness to accommodate up to 80 more pounds than I normally carry in the mountains, learning game behavior, learning environmentals, scouting, etc. I have a spot in Western WA that I can shoot 300-400 yds and plan to get comfortable with the "weird" shots. I am also a tech nerd and love seeing data and diving deep into it, sometimes to a paralyzing fault (which is why I'm here). Thanks for reining it all back in. Marketing is brutal.

Totally understand that, marketing is crazy these days. Social media is even worse. If I'm being honest, your initial post sounds like a classic case of over-research by someone who's just super stoked - 12lb 300PRC is going to look awesome on paper, until the second you pull the trigger. Or the first hour you have to carry it.

If you follow the typical gun talk and writers and influencers, you'd think that 600+ yards is nothing these days. Very few people can back that up in field conditions with their hunting rifles but they still promote it, mostly because they only shoot calm days at their usual range from a nice calm shooting position. Or because they're selling something.

Check out this thread, or look up the previous year's, and you'll see some pretty dedicated shooters missing that first round, cold bore shot at 400+ yards. It's great data.

Thread '2025 Cold Bore Challenge'

Jun 9, 2025

Welcome to the 3rd annual Rokslide Cold Bore Challenge

This challenge is designed to test your realistic Maximum Effective Range. The Challenge will start Saturday, June 14th, at 6:00 am MTN time on this thread. The challenge will run for five weekends and end on July 13th at midnight Mountain Time.

You shoot one shot each day of the challenge with no warm-up or follow-up shots and no practice between days. This is the Cold Bore Challenge. We want it to simulate what you experience when hunting for your BOAL.

We are limiting the challenge to the first 100...

• Justin Crossley
• Replies: 104
• Forum: Long Range Hunting

• 
• 

Backfire did a couple decent videos on hunting accuracy, this is a pretty good one to watch. High end rifles, experienced shooters, and they still miss a LOT. Decent hit rate out to 200, not so good from 200-300, pretty bad from 300-400, abysmal past 400+. And yet they all came in saying they were good at those distances.

Just saying, use these to re-set some of your expectations from the marketing/influencing BS. Shooting farther and pushing yourself is great, but having unrealistic expectations can set you spinning in circles. Or lying to yourself about your capabilities, which is what most people seem to do.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[EastHumboldt]

After what I said about platform and getting in close… I have this to say about tech. We used OnX this year to navigate up a ridge we’d picked out the afternoon before, in the pitch dark at 4 in the morning. Put us exactly where we wanted to be. It was awesome.

Also sh4rk, your humble attitude is refreshing.

 

[ArrowForester]

OP….best of luck and have fun getting into your hunting and shooting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with nerding out and getting in deep with your shooting and ballistics and correlating data to your shooting. That is a valid part of learning and improving if you’re wired that way. As has been pointed out, however, be careful about keeping it in realistic context with your goals if they lean more toward hunting than shooting. Marketing and hype can make that a challenge and be expensive along the way. If you get deep into shooting, ballistics and bullet performance and even deeper with hunting preparation and experience then you’ll be on your way. Using some tools to help the learning curve is fine and with experience you may rely on them less and less.

 

[sh4rk]

After what I said about platform and getting in close… I have this to say about tech. We used OnX this year to navigate up a ridge we’d picked out the afternoon before, in the pitch dark at 4 in the morning. It was awesome.

I purchased a subscription to OnX Hunt through ExpertVoice and it's quite a powerful set of tools. E-scouting is such a cool thing. I thought AllTrails was cool planning backpacking trips, but OnX maps are superior, by far.

 

[ddowning]

You missed the point of my post

No, I was agreeing with you, but it didn't come off that way. I've watched guys buy gear, complain they cant hit anything, buy different gear, rinse, repeat. Getting squadded with those guys at a match is a test of patience.