How to deal with game wardens?

[Customweld]

Claude Dallas had a unique way of dealing with overbearing wardens......

That didn't work well for any of the parties involved. I read the book when I was in Jr High. His family were my neighbors when I was a youngster.

 

[Weldor]

Did a ton of work with them on access programs,in the 90's roads, gates fences, sign in kiosk's, etc. Most all the guy's we camped with for days or weeks were very interesting to say the least. All good people with lots of good stories. I can honestly say , never had a problem in hunting several different states for over 40 plus years. I think it is a tough job with low pay in most places. I know in my home state they offered me a job as a field mechanic/welder for just over $10 bucks hour in 1990. Union scale at the time was well over $30 plus. Long hours and low pay just saying.

 

[3325]

No negative interactions in Wyoming.

I had several interactions with one long serving warden, since retired, who had a bit of a “straight laced,” sometimes almost “deadpan,” personality in the field. Strictly business, but he was never unprofessional or haughty. I later discovered he was pleasant enough on a personal level.

I had several interactions with another who was sort of a good ol’ boy type. He checked me then offered to use his horses and help me pack a cow elk if I got one during a late season hunt. He’d tell you where the activity was during late season cow hunts, but he wasn’t going to tell you where he’d seen a big bull. Why should he?

I thought the Wyoming G&F did an outstanding job on the Mark Uptain Grizzly attack case.

I think it’s sort of funny that the perspective seems to be about a hunter having to “deal with” a warden. Does it occur to anyone that the warden is also having to “deal with” you? He’s getting paid to do it, but it’s not always fun. Usually, he’s the interaction that happened in your life that day. But you might be one of a dozen interactions that happened in his life that day. No wonder some of them can come off as strictly business.

 

[grfox92]

I hunted 20 years in NY and never once spoke to a game warden, was never checked in the field. Never saw one in the field.

In WY during hunting season they have Biologists and all field staff checking tags and licenses. Not sure how it works but Im guessing if they find a violation, they call the game warden to come issue citations and deal with it.

I go out of my way to talk to anyone from Game and Fish when I see them. They are all amazing, helpful and encouraging..there is only one game warden who has a reputation for being a dick and in my interactions with him, he has been, but hes also not looking to bust or drill you for any little thing.

Overall, no fear or nervousness around Game and Fish.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

 

[HvyBeams]

I never referenced Montana. Perhaps you should read everything I wrote in this thread, so you get an actual understanding and be able to make cogent relevant comments, as I have never limited my comments to a single state. Furthermore, Montana's state regulations do NOT void federal law, nor federal wildlife officers ability to enforce them. You are clearly attempting to argue around your limited knowledge, while refusing to consider facts you are unaware of. The old saying comes to mind: when one thinks they know everything, there is no room to learn. I suggest you read through what I've written, with an open mind. As what you are saying, will get people in multiple states charged.

I don't need to re-read what you have written. Not once in this conversation have you bought a foundation based in law. All you brought were snide remarks.

You are now saying the feds can do whatever they want, bwhahaha. Post up the SCOTUS or any district court of appeals case law that says US Fish & Wildlife can violate your 4th Amendment rights. At this point, I would take a federal regulation that states US Fish & Wildlife officers can search any person or vehicle without probable cause citing the Administrative Inspections exception due to hunting and fishing being highly regulated. Just give me something other than running your fingers about how stupid I am.

The reason I posted about Montana was because you tagged a retired game warden from there. I guess you didn't like actual case law regarding wardens in MT. It's starting to become obvious you're not one for facts or actual law.

 

[Bubblehide]

Can you post or link to what you wrote above?

Search the open fields doctrine and administrative searches under the open fields doctrine. It is easily searchable, depending on how you word your search.

 

[Bubblehide]

I don't need to re-read what you have written. Not once in this conversation have you bought a foundation based in law. All you brought were snide remarks.

You are now saying the feds can do whatever they want, bwhahaha. Post up the SCOTUS or any district court of appeals case law that says US Fish & Wildlife can violate your 4th Amendment rights. At this point, I would take a federal regulation that states US Fish & Wildlife officers can search any person or vehicle without probable cause citing the Administrative Inspections exception due to hunting and fishing being highly regulated. Just give me something other than running your fingers about how stupid I am.

The reason I posted about Montana was because you tagged a retired game warden from there. I guess you didn't like actual case law regarding wardens in MT. It's starting to become obvious you're not one for facts or actual law.

Actually I have provided a rock solid foundation, but you simply refuse to do a few minutes of research to verify I'm correct; that is on you. As such, going back and forth with you is pointless. You are stuck on what you think you know, and unable to even consider anything that differs. That sir, is a sad state to be in.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I had one try to write me a ticket for "Interference" once. The warden said that I told another goose hunter "The game warden was coming down here to check licenses."

When he jumped me and threatened me I told him: " I didn't tell them you were coming. I told them that you just told me there was 7 minutes of legal shooting light left...."

He stormed off. Man that guy was a douche.

I would still like to punch the a$$hole that told him that......

That's one I think I would have been inclined to ask to be cited and make the effort to go to court. I for sure would like to see how that played out if challenged.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I have an honest and general question of Probable Cause and 4th amendment re: Hunting

I have a decent understanding of the application of PC and 4th amendment in my position. Which are firearms, narcotics, etc.

Arms reach, access to glove boxes and "anywhere you could hide or secret same".

Is part of the "issue" or question.....could you fit a grouse in a glove box? Yea An extra trout? Sure.

I am not at all familiar with the threshold of how reasonable-ness plays out or looks like in game violations.

What articulable facts need to be stacked in a game violation to reach PC? Be interesting to hear.

Exiting a known hunting area, wearing orange, and being present during date/time of lawful hunting I wouldn't think reaches PC.....

Most PC is created at the typewriter. I would guess a Warden with several years of typing is rather good at it.


Admitting you were hunting when passing a Warden as you drove out of a hunting area I don't think would be found Reasonable for PC either. Not even sure Reasonable Suspicion.

 

[TheTone]

Claude Dallas had a unique way of dealing with overbearing wardens......

Yeah being a murdering scumbag is a way to go through life

Shows a lot about a persons character if they’re okay with that

 

[dsotm]

Yeah they sure as hell are not searching my truck/pack/etc without a warrant.

 

[2ndlifegoodssb]

✔ Calm
✔ Respectful
✔ Compliant
✔ Minimal but honest answers

 

[LongWayAround]

I hunted 20 years in NY and never once spoke to a game warden, was never checked in the field. Never saw one in the field.

In WY during hunting season they have Biologists and all field staff checking tags and licenses. Not sure how it works but Im guessing if they find a violation, they call the game warden to come issue citations and deal with it.

I go out of my way to talk to anyone from Game and Fish when I see them. They are all amazing, helpful and encouraging..there is only one game warden who has a reputation for being a dick and in my interactions with him, he has been, but hes also not looking to bust or drill you for any little thing.

Overall, no fear or nervousness around Game and Fish.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

One of my few interactions with Wyoming game wardens, the guy pulled his truck up, sat down, and started glassing with us. We told him what our plan was and asked for his input. He gave us the pros/cons of two possible routes and info on the locals' habits. He couldn't have been more pleasant.

Same for the guys at the check stations.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Yeah they sure as hell are not searching my truck/pack/etc without a warrant.

From an enforcement standpoint (again...I am NOT a fish cop) I think you're very wrong.

Your vehicle is a mobile conveyance, and I would guess your feet ie- your ability to run or walk away while the warrant was being created and approved...is the entire work around to many Search and Seizures.

Not for certain, but think I am pretty close

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Search the open fields doctrine and administrative searches under the open fields doctrine. It is easily searchable, depending on how you word your search.

I typed this phrase into google:
“open fields doctrine and administrative searches with game wardens”

Google AI spit out this:

The Open Fields Doctrine allows game wardens (and other law enforcement) to search undeveloped private land without a warrant because the Fourth Amendment doesn't protect "open fields," even with "No Trespassing" signs. While federal courts generally uphold this, state constitutions may offer greater landowner protection, leading to ongoing legal challenges and some state court rulings restricting warden access, emphasizing the tension between wildlife enforcement and private property rights.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

With respect until that's not reciprocated. Have had roughly 30 interactions with wardens across 7 different states and one interaction with a CO in Canada. All were cordial except 2.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

^^^ personally NOT a fan of this. Kinda shitty on Private. Think we've read MANY examples of this being utilized in this thread.

Probable Cause that a violation has occurred and accessing Private land vs entering private lands to snoop and investigate? Not so much

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I have an honest and general question of Probable Cause and 4th amendment re: Hunting

I have a decent understanding of the application of PC and 4th amendment in my position. Which are firearms, narcotics, etc.

Arms reach, access to glove boxes and "anywhere you could hide or secret same".

Is part of the "issue" or question.....could you fit a grouse in a glove box? Yea An extra trout? Sure.

I am not at all familiar with the threshold of how reasonable-ness plays out or looks like in game violations.

What articulable facts need to be stacked in a game violation to reach PC? Be interesting to hear.

Exiting a known hunting area, wearing orange, and being present during date/time of lawful hunting I wouldn't think reaches PC.....

Most PC is created at the typewriter. I would guess a Warden with several years of typing is rather good at it.


Admitting you were hunting when passing a Warden as you drove out of a hunting area I don't think would be found Reasonable for PC either. Not even sure Reasonable Suspicion.

I asked Google this:
“define probable cause for game wardens in montana”

AI gave me this:

In Montana, probable cause for game wardens means having
actual, objective reasons (not just suspicion), based on facts and circumstances, to believe a fish and game law has been violated, allowing warrantless searches of vehicles, boats, and open areas, but requiring warrants for dwellings, with the standard being a reasonable belief in criminal activity for stops, not just general hunches. It's more than a hunch; it's a legal standard requiring specific, articulable facts that would lead an experienced officer to suspect wrongdoing, enabling searches for unlawfully taken game or illegal devices.
Key Elements of Probable Cause for Wardens

• Not Just Suspicion: It can't be a mere guess, policy, or hunch; it must be based on actual, credible information or observations.
• Objective Data: Wardens need objective facts that suggest a violation, like seeing someone with an illegal number of fish, hearing a gunshot in a restricted area, or finding prohibited bait.
• Totality of Circumstances: Courts look at all the facts together to decide if probable cause exists for a specific stop or search.
• Warrantless Searches Allowed (Specific Areas): For vehicles, boats, tents (not residences), and open fields, wardens can search without a warrant if they have probable cause.
• Warrants Needed for Dwellings: A search warrant is required to search a residence or dwelling.
• Peace Officer Powers: Wardens have peace officer status for fish and game enforcement, allowing searches, seizures, and arrests when probable cause is established.

Examples of Probable Cause (Inferred)

• A warden sees hunters near a "No Hunting" sign with fresh game and no licenses.
• A boat operator is fishing with illegal gear (like a gill net).
• A vehicle smells strongly of freshly killed game, but the occupants have no tags or licenses.

Legal Basis

• Montana Code Annotated (MCA) § 87-1-506 grants wardens broad search and seizure powers with probable cause.
• Montana's Constitution (Art. II, Sec. 11) protects against unreasonable searches, but this is balanced with specific statutes for wildlife enforcement.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Examples of Probable Cause (Inferred)

• A warden sees hunters near a "No Hunting" sign with fresh game and no licenses.
• A boat operator is fishing with illegal gear (like a gill net).
• A vehicle smells strongly of freshly killed game, but the occupants have no tags or licenses.

I would pretty strongly disagree with #3...unless a K9 is present and then...the handler would have to justify that the K9 is trained SPECIFICALLY to smell and detect game and present with an alert very specific to the presence of game (which dog isn't??)

But again...NOT a lawyer. Or Warden.

 

[Bubblehide]

I typed this phrase into google:
“open fields doctrine and administrative searches with game wardens”

Google AI spit out this:

Great, like I said previously, different states apply the open fields doctrine differently, and what you pulled up doesn't really cover an administrative search in which those states support them (a few states do not support them, but that does not negate federal wildlife officers). You might have to put in a little more effort, or search a state that supports administrative searches.