How much meat is ethical?

[SelwaySteve]

Pretty good chart I found showing how much meat you can expect from an elk:
How much Meat to Pack Out on an Elk?

Best part of the article referenced:

This subject reminds me of a comment made by an Air Force general responding to reporters at the beginning of the 2nd Iraq war. He said the amateurs (referring to some politician), always start talking about tactics, but the professionals start planning the logistics. Before you go elk hunting, you have to plan the logistics of packing an an elk out.

 

[rgrx1276]

CO law: Illegal to:
17. Fail to reasonably dress, care for and prepare edible wildlife meat for human consumption. At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps are edible meat. Internal organs are not considered edible meat.

Hunted some years back in the West Elk wilderness of Colorado and was stopped by a game warden about 10 miles from the truck. Checked my tag and license and asked to see one portion of the elk that was loaded on my horse- neck meat... Told me to have a good day after I dug through my pack box and found it... Don't leave any behind...

 

[Short Track]

Anything left behind is left to mother nature. Bears, coyotes, birds of prey, etc. Nothing goes to waste.

Even a non-retrieved animal (while it sucks to loose an injured animal) will be consumed by nature.

 

[rileybassman]

Anything left behind is left to mother nature. Bears, coyotes, birds of prey, etc. Nothing goes to waste.

Even a non-retrieved animal (while it sucks to loose an injured animal) will be consumed by nature.

I agree - important to not use it as an excuse to not haul out what you can, but none of the animal will go to "waste" - perhaps not "human consumption" but not waste.

As long as you are fulfilling the legal requirements, there shouldn't be any issue or judgement from other hunters against you IMO.

 

[FLAK]

I really don’t want to get into an ethics debate and I won’t, but I am curious since that’s what this thread has turned into. While I know this is about meat, there are opinions that nothing should be wasted and those who don’t take everything are unethical scumbags.
There’s a whole lot more edible on an elk than just meat and there is a whole lot more usable than just meat.

So here’s a few questions.

Are you taking the liver?
Are you taking the heart?
Are you taking the tongue?
Some cultures eat eyes, are you packing them out for soup?
Are you taking the hide and having it tanned to use for flooring or clothing?
Are you taking the brain? You need to bring that to tan the hide and if you don’t tan it yourself, you should donate the brain to someone who uses them for tanning so it doesn’t get wasted.
What about the small intestine? That should be brought out to use for meat casings.
Hooves contain keratin which is used in fire extinguishing foam.


If you aren’t bringing out every usable portion of what you kill, are you really bringing out everything? In not perhaps you were leaving things there to waste and being on ethical?

Now before the ethics crowd gets up in arms, I’m not looking for a debate. I’m just pointing out that no matter how ethical you think you are, there’s always another level.

Very well said.

 

[hunter4life]

Yes, a single horse/mule can carry out the meat of an entire elk. We had one mule this year with a pack saddle that carried out the boned out meat of one entire elk, 2 capes and two bedrolls. The other was just in saddle panniers and carried out the boned out meat of one elk and a few other odds and ends.

 

[hunter4life]

Elk must be smaller up North because I guarantee you that 2 guys are not going to be able to carry out all the meat from a mature Southern New Mexico bull in a single load. On a spike or raghorn it would be possible, but not on a big bull. I have weighed single hindquarters at over 90 pounds (bone-in).
Get some horses/mules or arrange for a packer to take out your elk. It makes hunting them much more enjoyable if you are packing in more than 3 miles or so.

 

[BiG_Sea]

Conversations about ethics on hunting forums will never result in a conclusion.

True, but I appreciate the respectful parts of the discussion—threads like this always provide a few new ideas for the field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AKBorn]

Anything left behind is left to mother nature. Bears, coyotes, birds of prey, etc. Nothing goes to waste.

Even a non-retrieved animal (while it sucks to loose an injured animal) will be consumed by nature.

This is spot on. I hunt moose or caribou in Alaska nearly every Fall, so in Maryland I try to use the gutless method on any whitetail I get, as extra practice for my Alaska hunts. Last fall I shot a doe on the last day of MD rifle season, and used the gutless method. Went back about a week later, and NOTHING was left – the hooves, hide, skeleton, etc. were all gone. I don’t use game cameras, but thinking about getting one to leave at my next MD kill site, to see what does that good a job on the carcass – the only predetors/scavengers we have in MD are black bears, coyotes, buzzards and foxes. Am really curious as to what animal(s) scoured my kill site.

 

[452b264]

1. All of it.

2. Don’t pull the trigger when I know I can’t pack it out.

I must agree with this, its also illegal to waste edible game meat in many states.

 

[BCSteel]

This is how I came to the conclusions on what works for me. Keep in mind I only started hunting 2 years ago.

Deer #1, took only the legally required amount of meat. Left organs, all bones, ribs, spine, head and cape. I felt bad. It felt to me that I left a lot behind.

Deer #2, took more but left ribs, liver, some bones including spine, cape and head minus the tongue. Felt better about it but still had reservations.

Bear #1. Took everything minus the guts and organs. Butchered and packed all of it. Turns out BBQ bear ribs are pretty damn good. Finally felt comfortable with my decision.

Birds, tried just breasting some ducks and grouse, not for me. So now I pluck all birds and keep everything including gizzard and heart.

If someone wants to take the legal minimum I'm totally fine with that, I just prefer to utilize more.

 

[Sled]

i take 4 quarters, 2 backstraps and 2 tenderloins. i'll get brisket on the front quarters and some neck meat. i've never taken ribs. i also consider where i'm hunting and the terrain. i can often get an animal out in one load if i can drag 2 quarters. i don't shoot many bulls and i leave the rack if it's too much to carry. i wish all states had a law where the meat came out first and the rack was the last piece of the animal to be recovered.

it seems these days people are too wrapped up in how big the rack is and not concerned about the meat.

 

[Piscatory_4]

How many here clean a grouse by just stripping the breast off and tossing the rest? Save the legs? Gizzard? Heart? Kind of the same principle, some guys only want the prime cuts. I've seen just this year an entire bull elk rib cage dumped next to a gate to one area I hunt. Must be too much work to process them I suppose.

I save the grouse legs as well as the breast and I cut up the ribs from deer and elk and save them. Pretty good deep fried or baked.

 

[JP100]

Its an interesting question for sure, and for alot of the guys saying its 'a legal debate not and ethical one' that all depends on where you live.

Here we not required by law to do anything. We can(and do) shoot to waste at times.

I just hunted Kazakhstan last month, my first Ibex we could get the horses to, we took EVERYTHING, tongue,organs etc, it was easy because we had the horses.
My 2nd Ibex we shot a wee distance away from where the horses could go, my guide was going to leave everything but the head. Is that unethical?
I dunno, I took the back lags and back straps and left the rest. Was some 'wasted', yea no doubt.
Would it be eaten by the bear we saw on that same face, for sure.

With most the game I shoot here I will take the back legs, back straps, fillets and a shoulder if its not shot up.
Plenty of meat is left behind.
There is plenty of terrain here where you cannot physically carry a whole animal out, so it can often mean two trips, which can takes days that we dont have.

When you remove the law, how many of you will take 'all' the meat?

Most the people on here are genuine hunters, and will take everything they can.
BUT I have guided plenty of clients from all over the world, who when the law is removed dont want a bar of it. They will happily leave the meat.
How many here shoot coyotes? and how many eat them?

Its a tricky because every situation is different.

We shot 5 deer last weekend(we can hunt all year and shoot what we want), one we packed out whole, Only thing that was wasted was the hide,hooves and some organs and blood. Ive got the ribs in the oven and have been eating the marrow from all the long bones.
The other deer we quartered and packed out so more was wasted.

Then at times people just hunt stags for a head, or we might go and shoot some goats or wallabies to waste.


When you shoot rabbits do you take 'all' the meat? its far easier to take than a deer.
When you kill a mouse do you take all the meat? far easier than a rabbit?
What about a sparrow?

At what point is it a 'waste' to leave an animal?
Rabbit sized?
Deer sized?
What about a coyote?
Bears? Cats?

The list goes on....

Its a question with no answer

 

[Piscatory_4]

Elk must be smaller up North because I guarantee you that 2 guys are not going to be able to carry out all the meat from a mature Southern New Mexico bull in a single load. On a spike or raghorn it would be possible, but not on a big bull. I have weighed single hindquarters at over 90 pounds (bone-in).

A middle aged Roosevelt bull will equal that, I've been wondering how guys can carry half an elk out at a time and just recently found out that a Rocky Mtn elk quarter may be only 50-65 lbs. and then de-bone it and there you go...

I was archery elk hunting just yesterday and came upon a 4x5 bull with cows and spikes, I was 4.5+ miles from my truck and it was 3:30pm. Was debating whether I wanted to try and shoot it since it was so far(albeit via road) and so late and I was supposed to work this morning. After watching them for a while I tried calling which got their interest and then they just ran off. Problem solved, maybe he will make it another week and I can try again.

 

[Piscatory_4]

Day after Thanksgiving I found a herd of elk with a nice bull but couldn't get a shot opportunity, been searching for them since without luck finding them. Yesterday I checked some fields across the river from where I saw them and found what I believe is the carcass of the bull from that herd. He was the only legal bull in the bunch. Seems they left a good bit of meat and it was only a mile at most back to the vehicle and across a field no less. This is state owned land.

Thoughts? They left the arrow in it too, so I took that.

View attachment 82845View attachment 82846

 

[One-shot]

All of it. Two years ago it took 4 of us on snowshoes 2 days, but we got it all.

 

[nunyacreek]

For everyone replying "all of it," I sure you hope you hike and hunt better than you read.

 

[Btaylor]

For everyone replying "all of it," I sure you hope you hike and hunt better than you read.

 

[7Bartman]

Let the wolves and bears starve: