How many is too many

[mwebs]

I am originally from Wisconsin although I haven't lived there for a long time, so I feel like I see both sides of the argument... But give me some honest opinions on the new army that invades the western otc states every year and this forum's (and other forums impacts on it)? Everyone including some of my best friends that hunt whitetail, out of a stand on private land want to come out and hunt elk on the "unlimited" public land (I used to hunt on public Wisconsin land but that is a whole other thread, that includes 1000s of people ). However it becomes extremely small in a hurry as a lot of us have experienced. How can we balance sharing knowledge against feeding the army? Do we even want to share the knowledge at this point? Why do we post open knowledge on areas on here or even PMs? I think this is worth a constructive thread outside of the bashing whatever guy starts a thread that says "First OTC, DIY, Western, I can't believe my wife let me do it..." I know my friends will never realize how small it gets very quickly. Yea 75% of that unit is public... You better believe everyone on this forum is looking at the same areas... The last 6 years of hunting in this state have taught me you better work 1000 times harder than you think to have the experience you wanted, and I absolutely do not want that to be a challenge to the bros of the world because I have met enough of you on the FS roads. I have lurked for years and every-time someone comes on and says hey just bought my tag OTC, DYI (apparently acronyms are cool), it kills me and I know they will bugle on every ridge accessible by ATV or trail head. I am not better than anyone else, but I do feel like I have a different approach to the hunt than the out-of-towners and that doesn't help my perception. So where is the line drawn?

 

[Newtosavage]

Not sure I understand the question.

 

[Rich M]

Wow - that's a lot of mind process there.

Folks don't share information like they did in days past. Folks have realized that by sharing, things get taken away, never to return.

The crowding often comes as point creep.

Hunt as you will but don't assume folks are as you assume. LOL! Not all folks do the same stuff. Just cause a dude does it on TV doesn't mean that's real life.

You gotta go figure out how to answer your questions without being unit specific.

My approach has always been go where other folks are not - and often find the critters there. When I did my first out west hunt I watched a steady parade of trucks along the roads and saw folks racing each other to stalk an animal. I'd rather wait a few years between hunts to avoid that kind of crowd hunting.

 

[mwebs]

The question is how many hunters can an OTC state like Idaho sustain and how much should those with applicable knowledge share on a forum like this. Tactics and such seem like great topics, but when my friend from Wis comes on here and asks about X unit why is there a response? I figured it out on my own and was unsuccessful for a while so I do not feel like any of this information helps anyone become a better hunter, just gives them a better idea of where they should look for elk (which I am all ears for ), I guess you are a better Insta hero, but absolutely not a better elk hunter.

 

[jmez]

When elk numbers are steadily below objective then it is too many and the state will deal with the numbers accordingly. They aren't going to change the tag allocation based on the number of hunters.

Even with all the influx of hunters, success rates stay pretty constant. Same guys are killing the elk year after year.

 

[mwebs]

Jmez, I agree with your take on it. The state wont deal with anything as long as they are making money, which is unfortunate, however it is necessary for proper conservation. But yes most of the same guys are killing the elk every year, based on "honey holes" or superior knowledge and skills. I guess my point is I am sick of guys blowing up our area, when they are simply "walking around looking for elk" regardless of how far back we were and sometimes things that are posted on here point them towards our area and I hate it. The guys ruining the hunting were not local and I know it is not handled the same in the midwest. If someone is blowing the whitetail hunting on adjacent landowners parcel you better believe the land owners surrounding will have something to say about it. People come out here and think land is infinite and it is not anything close to that, I suppose that is what I would want people to realize is they are coming into peoples back yards..

 

[*zap*]

Public land is public and as long as someone is within the law then they have a right to hunt as they want too/where they want too.. New hunters will learn what works and adapt or quit. I live in the mecca for whitetail nr hunters and hunt strictly public so I know all about crowds and people walking around.
It is just part of hunting on public access land. It is also kind of hard for someone from out of state to find a great area to hunt without some advice unless they have unlimited time/money. Public land is not someone's backyard it is the publics backyard.

 

[mwebs]

Absolutely agree that public land is public land, everyone has the right to it, but there are also not hundreds of people from Idaho invading the public lands of Wisconsin or any other state like that trying to shoot whitetail like they invade western states every year so there is a understandable difference I would hope we agree on. Most of my good friends that shoot good bucks every year pay 1000s of dollars to do so, which is crazy and I hope I avoid that living out here. But the more we give away on places like this the more likely it becomes we screw each other and that is all I am saying.

So what is the point? Is one of these guys from the mid-west going to let me hunt his stand for a year? What are we getting out of it besides the advertising $ the few of us get out of it?

I am just trying to start an honest conversation around it because I am not sponsored, have killed some elk and live in Idaho and have no desire to do anything other than be alone in the elk woods and kill every year.

I would love to have a conducive conversation that proves me wrong but I don't see an avenue for it.

 

[*zap*]

Not to be overly critical but why should a Midwest hunter that hunts public land in your area let you hunt his stand in his home state? Your welcome to get in the almost guaranteed deer draw for my state and get on here and ask about public land areas that are good to hunt and you probably will get some help with that from others that hunt here. Kansas sells plenty of nr deer tags....I do not feel those nr hunters owe me a free hunt wherever they come from and believe me there are a lot more than hundreds coming here every November to hunt public land.

 

[mwebs]

Hey zap, I think I can meet you halfway, and maybe we can see where we are all coming from. I am a midwest guy so forgive me for my lack of Kansas big game knowledge but this is the elk forum, and please tell me your honey hole in Kansas big boy. I have done ok for my self around here but have seen the whole sport degrade into a perverse game of who can take the best photo, or hike so far and kill an elk the photo looks cool. If we can not all agree that that is not ok I suppose we should all be doomed and the animals we purse be damnednd,

 

[*zap*]

I do not care to give you gps coordinates to any particular spot but your welcome to come to Douglas county and walk around the public land all you want to...as far as what hunting has become it is what it is and I concern myself more with what American society has become....I have two lists....what matters to me and what I can control...I look for things that are on both lists and concern myself with those things. If having the woods to myself matters to me then I look on the things I can control list under private property. Anything else would just be wasted energy.

 

[Farmerlentz]

I am originally from Wisconsin although I haven't lived there for a long time, so I feel like I see both sides of the argument... But give me some honest opinions on the new army that invades the western otc states every year and this forum's (and other forums impacts on it)? Everyone including some of my best friends that hunt whitetail, out of a stand on private land want to come out and hunt elk on the "unlimited" public land (I used to hunt on public Wisconsin land but that is a whole other thread, that includes 1000s of people ). However it becomes extremely small in a hurry as a lot of us have experienced. How can we balance sharing knowledge against feeding the army? Do we even want to share the knowledge at this point? Why do we post open knowledge on areas on here or even PMs? I think this is worth a constructive thread outside of the bashing whatever guy starts a thread that says "First OTC, DIY, Western, I can't believe my wife let me do it..." I know my friends will never realize how small it gets very quickly. Yea 75% of that unit is public... You better believe everyone on this forum is looking at the same areas... The last 6 years of hunting in this state have taught me you better work 1000 times harder than you think to have the experience you wanted, and I absolutely do not want that to be a challenge to the bros of the world because I have met enough of you on the FS roads. I have lurked for years and every-time someone comes on and says hey just bought my tag OTC, DYI (apparently acronyms are cool), it kills me and I know they will bugle on every ridge accessible by ATV or trail head. I am not better than anyone else, but I do feel like I have a different approach to the hunt than the out-of-towners and that doesn't help my perception. So where is the line drawn?

This is kind of what I was asking in my thread "is the marketing of hunting ruining hunting" I agree it's all public land and everyone has the right to be there however having 4 guys in the same baisin hunting the same deer shouldn't be the norm and seems to becoming more common. It seems like a lot of the new hunters coming into the sport are more interested in their insta post than ethics or common courtesy. Not sure what the answer to all this is but I think it will be an issue that continues to get worse. And personally I think that when it comes to cutting revenue the state rarely does the right thing.

 

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

Jesus Christ. Another one of these threads. Have you guys ever stopped to think that y’all were new hunters once, as well? I guess that’s a convenient fact that y’all want to ignore. It’s PUBLIC land. If you want to help a new guy out, do it. If you don’t want to help a new guy out, don’t. But the the guy that just left the gun shop with his first new rifle has just as much right to hunt public land as the guy who was born in the mountains with a rifle in his hand and killed his first elk before his first birthday. The sense of entitlement on this sight is gettin out of hand.

 

[Newtosavage]

Jesus Christ. Another one of these threads. Have you guys ever stopped to think that y’all were new hunters once, as well? I guess that’s a convenient fact that y’all want to ignore. It’s PUBLIC land. If you want to help a new guy out, do it. If you don’t want to help a new guy out, don’t. But the the guy that just left the gun shop with his first new rifle has just as much right to hunt public land as the guy who was born in the mountains with a rifle in his hand and killed his first elk before his first birthday. The sense of entitlement on this sight is gettin out of hand.

It's not just on this site.

Some folks really don't grasp the concept that public land belongs to everyone.

 

[MtGomer]

I have never been to a place that I had to hike off trail through rough terrain even for a few hours that had a lot of people.
Climb a steep mountain through downfall, post hole through knee deep snow, and get away from the trail system and you’ll be nearly alone even if there’s 20 rigs at the trailhead.

 

[Elkhntr08]

I’ve met some of the fines people out west. They have helped me more than I can ever repay. Guess it’s all about attitude. Had one gentleman give me his old Idaho maps with road that are no longer marked. The friend that introduced us said that guys that have known him for years, beg to get a look at them and now I have them.
I’ve spent the past 2 years in Illinois helping a couple guys get their first WT buck. Only shot a doe and coyote myself. Best couple seasons I’ve had in a long time.
Public out west is public, but we still have to show respect for each other.

 

[fatlander]

Pay your taxes. Pay 300% mark up on a NR tag. Pay local businesses while you’re here.

But for goodness sakes, stay off MY public land and rokslide!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cnelk]

What many new elk hunters dont realize is that of all the public land that can be hunted, elk only inhabit only 20% of those public lands.

This is why its confusing to many, when hunter numbers are down, but yet its crowded in places when you are actually out hunting.

We are now seeing new, more faces in those 20% areas, and competing for the same quarry.

I know many 'mid-west guys' that are very tight lipped about their certain WT deer areas [public or private] and are not favorable in sharing that info either.

Over the years, Ive helped 17 people both [Res & NR] take their first elk.
In those, Ive been burned by a couple of guys, so yeah, Damn right Im tight-lipped.

But as Ive said many times before 'Go Deep boys. Go deep'

 

[NDGuy]

The sense of entitlement on this sight is gettin out of hand.

Then leave, no one is making you be here..

I think everyone just get's annoyed of the lazy questions from people that just joined the site just like any other forum in existence.

There are a billion threads titled:

"Montana/Colorado/Utah/Wyoming Unit XXX Elk Advice"

Then you go in the thread and it's comical how similar most of the posts are. "Looking for general advice on where elk are" and the famous words "Not looking for someone's honey hole".

Take the time and learn/read and whittle down your questions. Use the search feature on this site, buy some books or read the 1000s of articles online. If you ask lazy questions you will get lazy answers. The posts on this site that get 50 replies are specific questions or broader tactics/gear recommendations. There is nothing wrong with being new and asking questions.

A lot of people will help on this forum, but take the time to learn and share some of your own experiences.

 

[Btaylor]

Absolutely agree that public land is public land, everyone has the right to it, but there are also not hundreds of people from Idaho invading the public lands of Wisconsin or any other state like that trying to shoot whitetail like they invade western states every year so there is a understandable difference I would hope we agree on. Most of my good friends that shoot good bucks every year pay 1000s of dollars to do so, which is crazy and I hope I avoid that living out here. But the more we give away on places like this the more likely it becomes we screw each other and that is all I am saying.

So what is the point? Is one of these guys from the mid-west going to let me hunt his stand for a year? What are we getting out of it besides the advertising $ the few of us get out of it?

I am just trying to start an honest conversation around it because I am not sponsored, have killed some elk and live in Idaho and have no desire to do anything other than be alone in the elk woods and kill every year.

I would love to have a conducive conversation that proves me wrong but I don't see an avenue for it.

If you think out of state hunters are not invading other states besides western states you are fooling yourself. Come to AR for duck season, try KS, IA , IL, MO etc during deer season. This past season I pulled in to a local sporting goods store (not Macks) in duck country and there was nearly 30 trucks there. Including my truck there were only 4 AR tags in the parking lot.