Would a 25UM or 25-7prc solve the BC issue with only a minimum increase in felt recoil?Basically all other diameters have higher form factors than 6mm. There are .224 bullets with higher BC’s than all but one 6mm on the market. There’s no reason that there aren’t multiple low to mid .600 BC 6mm bullets.
A 110-115gr 6mm is about like a 130-135gr 6.5mm, or a 150gr 7mm, or 190gr 30cal.
Maybe you already realize this, and I'm just reading too much into the wording. It's not really "felt" recoil, but the ability to spot shots with a light, handy rifle. When approaching the situation from this perspective, the difference will be noticeable. There is a difference that is perceivable when I go from a 105 at 3200 fps to a 115 at 3050 fps in a 15# 243 Ackley. You don't feel it, but what you see through the scope is noticeably different. The 105 is easier to spot at close range from awkward positions and the 115 gives a lot more splash and target reaction at long range with the tradeoff coming at more reticle movement from recoil.Would a 25UM or 25-7prc solve the BC issue with only a minimum increase in felt recoil?
I don't know of a single company that makes money (their driving reason for existence) by having nothing to sell.I wonder if perceived scarcity is an intentional move. If they're always in stock maybe people don't buy surplus "just in case"?
Cool, maybe let berger know then.I don't know of a single company that makes money (their driving reason for existence) by having nothing to sell.
Why? Do you feel Nammo group is purposely limiting their revenue, by having bullet lines set idle?Cool, maybe let berger know then.
No. What I'm saying is since many of the bullets berger sells are perpetually out of stock, you might want to let them know they won't make money with nothing to sell.Why? Do you feel Nammo group is purposely limiting their revenue, by having bullet lines set idle?
Would a 25UM or 25-7prc solve the BC issue with only a minimum increase in felt recoil?
Hornady just dropped the 22 creed though, designed around a high bc 223 bullet going fast as hellI'd think the biggest concern for manufactures is making a really heavy for caliber bullet, say a 6mm 120 ELDM, that'll require a very fast twist, like a 6.5tw or maybe faster, to fully stabilize and get the full BC of the bullet then folks shooting them in things that are capable of launching them 3200+ because that would be a lot of RPM for a bullet to survive. Then, when folks start shooting these things and the bullets are coming apart, due to the excessive RPM, they're pissed off at the manufacture because they think the bullet is a POS.
I think longgggg heavy for caliber bullets are cool the damn things look badass and lethal just sitting still but I also think there's a point of diminishing return with this stuff and we get to a point where to much of a good thing is no longer a good thing. IMO, that's where the 25 cal with these new heavies like the 134 ELD-M and 135 Berger have the ability to outshine the 6's. A 25 SAUM or the improved version like a 25UM or maybe even a 25-7PRC could be a real sleeper. I've never been a quarter bore fan but I'm pretty excited about getting my 25 SAUM built to shoot the 134/135 class bullets.
@B23, I posted on the first page a screen shot from Bergers twist calculator, it looks like you’d only need a 7.5 twist to get our theoretical bullet stable at moderate elevation. This would keep bullet rpms right around 300,000 which would be fairly normal for most 6mm setups being run.I'd think the biggest concern for manufactures is making a really heavy for caliber bullet, say a 6mm 120 ELDM, that'll require a very fast twist, like a 6.5tw or maybe faster, to fully stabilize and get the full BC of the bullet then folks shooting them in things that are capable of launching them 3200+ because that would be a lot of RPM for a bullet to survive. Then, when folks start shooting these things and the bullets are coming apart, due to the excessive RPM, they're pissed off at the manufacture because they think the bullet is a POS.
I think longgggg heavy for caliber bullets are cool the damn things look badass and lethal just sitting still but I also think there's a point of diminishing return with this stuff and we get to a point where to much of a good thing is no longer a good thing. IMO, that's where the 25 cal with these new heavies like the 134 ELD-M and 135 Berger have the ability to outshine the 6's. A 25 SAUM or the improved version like a 25UM or maybe even a 25-7PRC could be a real sleeper. I've never been a quarter bore fan but I'm pretty excited about getting my 25 SAUM built to shoot the 134/135 class bullets.
Yep, a 6 PRC seems like the obvious next evolution if they’re working up the ladder. And a 25 creed and 25 PRC while they’re at it to keep the quarter bore fans happyHornady just dropped the 22 creed though, designed around a high bc 223 bullet going fast as hell
I suppose I could have worded that differently, my question is would the jump from a 108-115 or 120gr .243 up to a 133-134 .257 make it measurably different to spot your own shots? Obviously there is a trade off for everything, higher bc is typically coming from bullet weight which will typically add more recoil (pulling the reticle off target). I’m not disagreeing with anyone a 120 grain tipped match bullet for 6mm would be the bees knees. I just wonder if there is too much overlap between the options that are already available.Maybe you already realize this, and I'm just reading too much into the wording. It's not really "felt" recoil, but the ability to spot shots with a light, handy rifle. When approaching the situation from this perspective, the difference will be noticeable. There is a difference that is perceivable when I go from a 105 at 3200 fps to a 115 at 3050 fps in a 15# 243 Ackley. You don't feel it, but what you see through the scope is noticeably different. The 105 is easier to spot at close range from awkward positions and the 115 gives a lot more splash and target reaction at long range with the tradeoff coming at more reticle movement from recoil.
Sierra isn’t like other bullet manufacturers. They don’t seem to care about either innovating or keeping components in stock for handloaders. Most of their production goes to ammo manufacturers who are turning out cheap, high-volume range ammo. I seriously doubt they would be worth anyone’s time to bug about making a new heavy for caliber 6mm bullet. They won’t see a market for it.Yes.
The difference between Dtacs and bullets that Sierra makes with their own label is, Tubb orders a lot of bullets- enough to last between multiple year breaks in production runs. Sierra has no clue on how many of any particular bullet to make when they run their own.
I don't pretend to know the why's of bullet production, but some companies have a better production capacity vs number of products ratio. Just looking on Midway, Sierra is out of stock on 70 out of 188 different Sku's listed. Berger is out of 78 out of 138 Sku's To compare Hornady is out of stock on 5 out of 201 Sku's.
I saw that but don't you think something like a 120 ELD-M would be longer then your 1.38 example? I'd expect it to be somewhere in the low to mid 1.4's for OAL.@B23, I posted on the first page a screen shot from Bergers twist calculator, it looks like you’d only need a 7.5 twist to get our theoretical bullet stable at moderate elevation. This would keep bullet rpms right around 300,000 which would be fairly normal for most 6mm setups being run.
I suppose I could have worded that differently, my question is would the jump from a 108-115 or 120gr .243 up to a 133-134 .257 make it measurably different to spot your own shots? Obviously there is a trade off for everything, higher bc is typically coming from bullet weight which will typically add more recoil (pulling the reticle off target). I’m not disagreeing with anyone a 120 grain tipped match bullet for 6mm would be the bees knees. I just wonder if there is too much overlap between the options that are already available.
Yeah not sure tbh, the 115 VLD is 1.35. Not sure how much longer it’d need to be to add 5 grains. FWIW 1.40 is still stable. But starts to get marginal beyond that.I saw that but don't you think something like a 120 ELD-M would be longer then your 1.38 example? I'd expect it to be somewhere in the low to mid 1.4's for OAL.
Would a 25UM or 25-7prc solve the BC issue with only a minimum increase in felt recoil?